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Re: Drop Dropbox

#551

Post by HNJohnC »

sreya wrote: post #520
_hgt1 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Eich, Rice went far beyond simply holding beliefs and making donations. She held real power and used it in unconscionable ways. Given the current climate, I find it incredible that a cloud storage company would be involved with someone who actually wiretapped members of the UN Security Council. It's almost like they're saying "thanks for all the data, oh and f * you".

If you don't believe every country in the world doesn't try to bug any country they have an investment in, rather it be ally or enemy, you're naive. I can't believe it even came as surprise that US bugged its allies, you don't believe our allies do the same thing, or at least try to, to us?

"Everyone else does it so it's ok". Well we know where your moral compass points at least.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#552

Post by jmnicolas »

I just closed my DropBox account with the reason "Condoleezza Rice". I want those people to know there are consequences to their actions.

Now if I was rational about it and it was as easy as living without DropBox, I would stop using Microsoft softwares.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#554

Post by forrestthewoods »

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

People are increasingly incapable of living and working with people with whom they deeply disagree. Quite frankly I consider that behavior childish and immature. Unfortunately it appears that we are living in a world full of children.

I am not looking forward to the future where no one shares any opinion they may or may not have due to this type of blacklisting.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#555

Post by jff »

mjolk wrote: post #298
tomasien wrote: post #52

Dropping Mozilla because Eich is anti-gay-marriage made sense to me because Mozilla is the beacon of open source. Mozilla belongs to us in a very personal way, many of us have contributed code to Firefox personally. But Condi Rice joining a completely private Dropbox as a board member - this is a non-issue. I'm as strongly anti-Bush administration and anti-war in general (especially the Iraq War - good grief) as anyo…

Eich also created JavaScript and I don't see a massive push to drop it everywhere. I think these sort of things are an outrage-economy with no serious or lasting effect.

I wish there was a massive push to drop it, though...

Re: Drop Dropbox

#556

Post by dragonwriter »

tptacek wrote: post #384
dragonwriter wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saddam Hussein had irrefutably demonstrated that he was willing to use weapons of mass destruction in pursuit of his ambitions: he had used chemical weapons both on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians With -- lest it be forgotten -- the full support and backing of the US government while he was actually doing it. Heck, when it first became public knowledge and world outrage started, the US rushed Donald Rumsfeld out to (1)…

Without wading into the morass of litigating the Iraq war, which would be stupid, because we are converging on bipartisan consensus that it was a debacle: two wrongs don't make a right, and "the US government" over the course of two decades isn't a single coherent unified force.

> "the US government" over the course of two decades isn't a single coherent unified force.

That's significantly less true of the executive branch foreign-policy decision makers at the time of the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq War and those at the time of the 2003 US-Iraq than it is either of the government as a whole at those two times or of the executive branch foreign policy apparatus over the whole intervening period.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#557

Post by vdaniuk »

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Companies are not benevolent or useful for society per se. The positive or negative externalities of their actions are defined by their business models, business strategies, top management and board of directors.

If Dropbox board of directors is fine to sit in the same room with the person who was connected with patriot act, iraq war, massive surveillance and torture, I, personally, don't want to have anything in common with such board and such top management and the products they make.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#558

Post by 1337biz »

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

What I find more revealing that, while similar politically loaded, this topic remains untouched by the moderators.

Interfering with the "community" system is such a slippery slope and we are apparently watching another one of these revealing moments.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#559

Post by jnbiche »

nickff wrote: post #529
jnbiche wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I heartily agree that I was a total moron to fall for Obama's sweet talk. Glad you had the smarts and life experience to avoid that trap. To exculpate myself a tad, I didn't vote for him in 2012 (or anyone else). But back to the question at hand: if we, the people, are somehow supposed to right out ship by doing more than just voting, how exactly do we choose our candidates? In Obama's case, we went on his statem…

I commend your intellectual rigor for examining your previous belief system in what I am certain was a painful lesson (as changing beliefs is always painful[1]). My point was not that I was any sort of clairvoyant, or had a brilliant insight into the president's soul; it is only that all the politicians are acting under the same incentive system, and unless you have good reason to believe that one acts differently un…

>I commend your intellectual rigor for examining your previous belief system in what I am certain was a painful lesson (as changing beliefs is always painful[1]).

It was.

Coincidentally, I read Koestler's essays when I was a teenager, along with some of Orwell's writings with the same theme (Homage to Catalonia for one). Wish I'd paid a bit more attention to the underlying message.

But I think some things you have to experience to learn.

>I invest my energies in divesting the government of power, to reduce the impact of abuse and poor decisions;

I do the same now. I'm a very different person politically than I was back in 2007. And lack of trust in my own political instincts is only one of the reasons why I no longer vote in national elections. As proof, I'd show you all my commits to open source projects that at least partially aim to reduce government power by promoting privacy and peer-to-peer interactions, but I wish to remain at least somewhat anonymous.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#560

Post by pohl »

orblivion wrote: post #334
pvnick wrote: post #253

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I absolutely agree with most of the opposition to Condi Rice wrt the illegal war, warrantless wiretaps, torture, etc. On the other hand, I threw a hissy fit over the opposition to Eich based on his beliefs. I'm not sure how I can oppose Rice while standing up for Eich without inconsistency. Anybody else feel conflicted and have some insight? I'm still probably goin…

Funny I feel the opposite way. I (barely) decided the opposition to Eich was okay because of the nature of Mozilla as a company, and the progressive culture around it. (I'm not a progressive myself, which is why I was iffy about it). But if it's any other organization, I decided, it actually starts to become bullying.

That's the perfect meme to consolidate power at the top. First we get the Citizens United v. FEC and McCutcheon v. FEC rulings, making money "free expression" for the rich. And now we associate the Little Guy's "free expression" with their meager consumer dollars with "bullying", "witch hunts", etc...

Bravo, I say. Machiavellian!

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