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Re: Drop Dropbox

#531
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do see a difference. Eich's stance was (and is) personal, and I'm pretty sure it would have stayed that way. I would have kept using Firefox because of the Mozilla position on privacy and openness, and despite its CEO position. On the other hand, Dropbox is a private company. They don't stand for you, they stand for themselves. They are their own first priority. Having someone as important as Mrs Rice on board is c…

Eich's stance was (and is) personal, and I'm pretty sure it would have stayed that way I think that political contributions are (and should be) fundamentally public acts. You can think all the reprehensible things you want, but once you start materially supporting reprehensible campaigns, it's a different thing altogether.

Totally agree with you, I must have made myself unclear: Eich is gay-unfriendly, Mozilla is not, and having Eich as a CEO wouldn't have changed Mozilla on this particular topic. Mozilla would have stayed open to everyone without any distinction. This is all I care about.

(I also disagree with Eich's view on gays, but that's outside of the scope of this conversation)

Re: Drop Dropbox

#532
Aside from personal views, I question why Dropbox would make a move like this knowing that there would some backlash at the very minimum. There are other people out there that would make just as good of a board member without the potential that Condi has for stirring up discontent. If they didn't anticipate this or consider the ramifications of adding Condi, then the execs behind the decision need some help.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#533
post #253

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I absolutely agree with most of the opposition to Condi Rice wrt the illegal war, warrantless wiretaps, torture, etc. On the other hand, I threw a hissy fit over the opposition to Eich based on his beliefs. I'm not sure how I can oppose Rice while standing up for Eich without inconsistency. Anybody else feel conflicted and have some insight? I'm still probably goin…

Seeing the comparison to Eich is ridiculous tbh.

Do I want to drink a beer with Eich? Looking at his donation record - no. Will his contribution improve the Mozilla product? Looking at his history as a technologist with Mozilla and JavaScript - probably yes.

Do I want to drink a beer with Rice? Looking at her career history - no. Will her contribution improve Dropbox? Looking at her career history - can't imagine any positive effect, probably negative, especially in the privacy area.

Definitely going to try some Dropbox alternatives now.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the current President that authorized the assassination of a U.S. citizen abroad?

Not to mention the countless drone strikes that kill numerous civilians in the process. Don't let that fool you though. They're apparently not as bad as waterboarding for some reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04L8Sf3K4Lw

Re: Drop Dropbox

#535

Why is this on HN? This is just a political powder keg. Anyone who agrees with the article will upvote it and any comment supporting it. Anyone who disagrees with the article will downvote it and any comment opposing it. The only "benefit" to this post is that the publicity given to the grievance (whether real or imagined) will sway Dropbox leadership to drop Condi. Whether that's a good thing or not for Dropbox as a…

Powder keg or not, a Privacy concern would certainly influence my decision of whether or not to use their APIs in my software, especially on behalf of consumers. They've been trying to attract developers to their API, and they just lost my interest.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#536
post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's actually quite simple some people want to turn Silicon Valley into an arm of their preferred political party. Oh, they don't want that outright, certainly, but they certainly want it and everyone in it to be aligned with the party's principles, especially at the leadership level.

The extent of black-listing is quite remarkable; especially for a group of people so emphatic in describing themselves as 'tolerant'.

Believing in legal tolerance (most people who are described as "tolerant"/socially liberal) is not the same as believing you cannot say anything negative about someone or make judgments based on their actions and beliefs.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#537
post #4

When looking to grow our board, we sought out a leader who could help us expand our global footprint. Condoleezza sure left a global footprint in the Middle East alright. Hate do this Dropbox, but time for me to move on. Edit: Suggestions for a Dropbox substitute?

Bitcasa: 1TB/$10 - https://www.bitcasa.com/pricing

Are they faster?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#538
Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world.

In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they view the world generally. Startup culture thirty years ago had a decidedly American flavor. Today, it does not because the world is big and diverse and because entrepreneurs today who do startups come from all sorts of cultures and backgrounds. Surely, those who come from such divergent backgrounds hold differing political and religious views. Some are conservative, others liberal, still others apolitical. Some are theists, others atheists. The variations are many but one thing is certain: not all people think alike on political, religious, or social topics. These are issues that inherently will divide.

What happens, then, when people attempt to set political, social, or religious tests as criteria for who can hold important positions in a business organization? Well, it gets about as ugly as it can get, just as such tests proved ugly when used historically by, say, Christians to exclude Jews from holding important positions in society or to punish atheists for not holding to some prescribed creed.

One might say, "this is different" because we are not holding to an arbitrary creed but rather to fundamental principles that ought to govern all humanity. Well, that is precisely how those who sought to impose thought control in other eras rationalized their conduct. "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party" is a question that destroyed many careers as the blacklists proliferated back in the 1950s. That was indeed a repulsive set of events by which many innocent persons were hurt and today our national conscience wishes it could take back the damage done to them.

So why is this any different? It is easy enough to whip oneself up into a lather over Ms. Rice’s policies if one disagrees with them but what about the half of America (or whatever significant percentage) that does not. And why should this be relevant to board service?

Politics, religion, and social worldviews divide people and have no place as limiting tests in a business environment. Scolding and finger-wagging was bad enough coming from a first-grade teacher trying to promote sanctimonious values back in the 1950s. Do we really want a counterpart agenda now setting rules for who can be a founder, who can be an investor, who can be a director, who can be a CEO, or who can otherwise take a prominent role in the startup world? The answer should be an emphatic no.

Principle is more important here than a particular outcome. What happens with Ms. Rice is not the issue here. What matters is upholding the abiding principle (precious in a free society) that people can hold divergent views on such topics as politics, religion, and society without being punished for their views in a business context. People can and ought to be able to unite to form great companies without having to compare notes on how they voted in the last election or some similar matter having nothing whatever to do with whether someone can add value to the venture. This is central to startup culture. Let us not lose sight of something so basic.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hated the Eich thing and I hate this too. Even if she has been wrong about basically everything she was ever put in charge of, this is not how we settle political disputes in a civil society. If you want to stop using Dropbox, fine. If you're a stakeholder in Dropbox, then you have a legitimate interest here. But no one else does.

Excuse me? Not doing business with companies who do things we dislike is exactly how we settle political disputes in a civil society. Seriously, what the hell is with all these idiots lately saying that we're not supposed to even vote with our wallets anymore? I apologize for my harsh language but I'm just so flabbergasted, and it's such a stupid thing to say that I think "idiots" is justified. Do you really think th…

There's a critical distinction between voting with your own wallet and launching an (anonymous) campaign to ensure someone never works again.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there is often little difference in foreign policy, their approach to social issues is vastly different. You probably don't pay any attention to this though. It does however ultimately affect you, since such a powerful but broken country could wield incredible damage abroad. However even in foreign policy matters, there would have been different results with respect to the Iraq war. The invasion was a quick and…

>While there is often little difference in foreign policy, their approach to social issues is vastly different. I think that this is a fiction put forth by the parties to inspire their more extreme members, but is false when you consider where the two parties fall on a full political spectrum. Take for example a couple of the most divisive social issues today: Same Sex Marriage: Clinton signed DOMA 15 years ago, Obam…

You're right, from an extreme position Republicans and Democrats do look very similar.
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