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Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

appleinsider.com

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#41
post #14
post #9

Amen to this. I've never understood the appeal of glossy displays. To me they're almost unusuable except under the most ideal lighting conditions.

Glossy displays are cheaper to make (since they lack the anti-glare coating). Most consumers even prefer glossy vs matte (especially when they see them side to side at the shop) because the matte coating (obviously) reduces brightness and colors are perceived as less vibrant. Of course, as soon as you have to work with them (apart from viewing a movie in a dark room) you'll regret it. Cheaper + clueless consumer = ma…

Yes there is probably a name for the affect of things like gloss, or brightness in a shop causing increated sales (yet its actually an inferior feature). Its the same reason LCDs have brightness and colour cranked up in shops, stereos are played loud etc...

Having said that, the glass on the unibody does look easy to keep clean.

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#42
post #10

So now they acknowledge that glossy screen is even $50 _inferior_ to matte.

They might have been reluctant to bring back the matte, so they tried to see if they could make $50 off of each one, and it sure did. I wonder what's next, take out the "space" key on the keyboard and charge $10 for it?

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#43

I wish they would offer some decent resolutions as well...the 13" with 1400x900 would be nice (like on a lenovo X301), and 15" with 1920x1050 (like you can get on a dell xps 1550) would be so good! Who wants to lug a 17" lump around to get decent res?

I think the standard widescreen aspect for the 15" would be 1680x1050. I'm holding off my MBP purchase for that. My current 14" dell has 1440x900, I can't understand why the "better" screens on the MBP's have such poor resolution.

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. You have it backwards. Matte screens really require the ideal lighting conditions. Easy test: take one of each, and go outside. Sunlight washes out a matte screen to the point of being impossible to use. Glossy screens reflect much of that light away, leaving the screen still legible. As someone that used to do a lot of work outdoors on a laptop, there's no comparison. Glossy screens are usable in FAR, FAR…

This hasn't been my experience at all. My previous lappy had a glossy screen, and I simply couldn't use it outside, and it's one of the reasons I didn't buy an Apple laptop when I got a new one a couple of months ago (bought a Dell Latitude with a super bright matte screen that works great indoors and out). I think saying, "Glossy screens reflect much of that light away, leaving the screen still legible" is magical t…

If by "magic thinking", you mean "a basic understanding of concepts like angle of incidence/reflection", then sure, magic. Or basic science. Your choice.

Don't go by sketchy memory. Take one of each laptop - borrow a co-worker's, if necessary - go outside, and expose each screen to direct sunlight.

Observe how the matte screen diffuses the light across the entire screen surface.

Also observe how glossy screens (which, it turns out, don't come in parabola shapes, and as such aren't reflecting all incoming light to one point) aren't washed out like the matte. There's glare, of course, but you'll quickly see the difference.

Given sufficiently bright direct light, matte glare is MURDER compared to reflective glare. Matte is ideal for office settings, but far inferior in sunlight.

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hasn't been my experience at all. My previous lappy had a glossy screen, and I simply couldn't use it outside, and it's one of the reasons I didn't buy an Apple laptop when I got a new one a couple of months ago (bought a Dell Latitude with a super bright matte screen that works great indoors and out). I think saying, "Glossy screens reflect much of that light away, leaving the screen still legible" is magical t…

If by "magic thinking", you mean "a basic understanding of concepts like angle of incidence/reflection", then sure, magic. Or basic science. Your choice. Don't go by sketchy memory. Take one of each laptop - borrow a co-worker's, if necessary - go outside, and expose each screen to direct sunlight. Observe how the matte screen diffuses the light across the entire screen surface. Also observe how glossy screens (which…

If by "magic thinking", you mean "a basic understanding of concepts like angle of incidence/reflection", then sure, magic. Or basic science. Your choice.

No. Not choice. Evidence says you're wrong. Evidence trumps theory. Them's the rules of science.

Don't go by sketchy memory. Take one of each laptop - borrow a co-worker's, if necessary - go outside, and expose each screen to direct sunlight.

This isn't sketchy memory I'm talking about here. I still own the glossy screen laptop, and I also have a new Mini 9 with a glossy screen, and both can be cranked up nice and bright. I know they're unusable outdoors. And I know that my new laptop is quite usable outdoors even in low-power (dim screen) mode. I just took them all outside for a side-by-side. I mostly see my face and shirt in the glossy lappies, while the matte screen is quite usable.

Neither type of screen is great in direct sunlight, of course, but the matte screen can actually be used even in direct sunlight. The glossy screens cannot. At least not by me...maybe my eyes are worse than most (actually that's not a maybe, I'm damned near legally blind without glasses or contacts).

Anyway, as I mentioned, sufficient brightness can somewhat overcome the problems of glossy screens outdoors. Newer laptops are brighter than older ones, so if you upgraded from a matte screen from a few years back to a newer Apple laptop with a much brighter glossy screen, you might feel like the newer screen is more usable even in sunlight.

But, I'm absolutely certain a good matte screen is better for working outdoors than a good glossy screen.

The good news for you and your glossy screen preference is that since glossy screens are cheaper to manufacture, they are far more common. You will be able to buy glossy screens to your hearts content. I, on the other hand, have to be a bit more selective, and usually spend a bit more (generally only the high end Dell models have the matte option).

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#47
post #30
post #9

Amen to this. I've never understood the appeal of glossy displays. To me they're almost unusuable except under the most ideal lighting conditions.

The glossy displays on the MacBook pros are actually not that bad. They ramp up to such a high brightness that you can defeat any glare you throw at it. I've used my macbook pro in the full midday sun on my back with no problem. The matte screen on my 15" powerbook was pretty much unusable outside unless it was dark.

I think this is likely more due to the change to LED for back lighting.

What the problem is with glossy displays is that they act like a half-silvered piece of glass. If the brightness on the outside gets too high, they turn into a mirror and it's near impossible to see through. However if the brightness remains high on the inside, you can see through with perfect clarity.

So long as the back lighting can get brighter than the fore lighting, the glossy screen can be amazing. It has a few problems, like glares (where reflections and such cause light levels to peak higher than the back light), however these are really only a problem if you have to max out your back light.

Apple should be designing their laptop screens like they do their iPod screens. My brightness on my iPod is set to ~0% and inside it is perfect, even for most tv shows (no dark moody movies though), and outside I rarely need to put it up to 100% on the sunniest of days. This would be the ideal, but until laptops actually become ultra-portable I don't think this is a huge concern.

I think it's a trend of the new-geek to want to be outside in nature when working, so hopefully some ultra-powerful back lights are going to be available on high-end laptops for use outside.

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#48
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glossy displays are cheaper to make (since they lack the anti-glare coating). Most consumers even prefer glossy vs matte (especially when they see them side to side at the shop) because the matte coating (obviously) reduces brightness and colors are perceived as less vibrant. Of course, as soon as you have to work with them (apart from viewing a movie in a dark room) you'll regret it. Cheaper + clueless consumer = ma…

It's odd, though - in some European countries, the glossy screens are considered ergonomically harmful and are therefore banned from the workplace. So you can't give your employees iMacs, smaller Macbooks, etc. to work on. You'd think Apple would be a bit keener to sell to businesses.

Got a reference for that? I hadn’t heard it before.

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#49
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use my laptop mostly indoors in my home office with controlled lighting. The glossy screen looks better, deeper blacks, more vibrant colors, etc... While I wouldn't use it for photo or pre-press work, I really like it in general.

But isn't the point of a laptop portability? The glossy screen makes it significantly less portable -- in anything but ideal lighting, everything in front of the screen is reflected in a way that interferes with the intended image. That just doesn't sound conducive to usefulness in a laptop. If you just use it inside your home office, why buy a laptop in the first place?

I said "mostly". I also use it in my dining room, my media room, out on my back deck, in my yard, at the local coffee shop, on planes (way too much), at client sites, in hotels, at friends houses, at my mom's house, in the car, and so on.

The only time glare has been a significant problem is when I'm outside (at my house or a coffee shop) and the sun is in the wrong position (solved this on my deck with a patio umbrella). For what it's worth, the same conditions where the glare is bad tend to make my previous matte 15" mbp totally unusable (washed out).

Again, I don't do photo work, but for e-mail, coding, etc... it takes a lot for the glare to get to the point where it interferes, and the matte screen is usually useless long before then.

Re: Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro

#50

I wish they would offer some decent resolutions as well...the 13" with 1400x900 would be nice (like on a lenovo X301), and 15" with 1920x1050 (like you can get on a dell xps 1550) would be so good! Who wants to lug a 17" lump around to get decent res?

I think the standard widescreen aspect for the 15" would be 1680x1050. I'm holding off my MBP purchase for that. My current 14" dell has 1440x900, I can't understand why the "better" screens on the MBP's have such poor resolution.

Tradition. Apple laptop screens have always been subpar. Worse panels, worse lighting, worse resolution than what you'd get in a similarly priced PC laptop.

I guess this has to do with the screen being one of the most expensive parts and apple selling smaller quantities than other manufacturers. Better panels would likely eat into their margin significantly.

Anyways Apple is not dumb and has long realized that this flaw can be trivially concealed simply by ensuring that your product is never on display side-by-side with competing brands.

Hence the apple-isles...

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