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Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#11

Post by fleitz »

MBlume wrote: post #4
Crito wrote: post #3

In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples" . It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples . Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples . Etc. What is interes…

Related: I don't understand how the "few bad apples" defense always seems to be used to argue for "so ignore it" rather than "and by the way, when we find a bad apple, it goes straight in the garbage disposal where it belongs". Like, all these prosecutors are going apeshit because a judge dared to say they should possibly lose their licenses -- what about the idea that they should serve time, time comparable to what…

I don't think they should lose their licenses, they should be tried for contempt and the mandatory minimum applied.

Prosecutors might be well served in these instances by the judge refusing a plea bargain as is their prerogative.

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#12

Post by rbcgerard »

Crito wrote: post #3

In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples" . It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples . Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples . Etc. What is interes…

What always amuses me about the "bad apple" defense is that in many situations I would imagine that if you objectively looked at the size of an organization vs the number of people involved in scandals over the years, it's not just a couple of bad apples but quite the opposite - say a statistically significant higher rate of xxx crime or behavior vs the general population.

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#13

Post by ozymandius182 »

kiba wrote: post #7
DiabloD3 wrote: post #2

I'm glad someone is finally standing up for the rights of common citizens. I really don't want to see the social experiment of the United States end in a failure, and every day our rights are eroded, we get closer to that. I like this country, and consider myself a patriot. I just also have to recognize that the people who participate in running this country do not always have our best interests at heart.

I really don't want to see the social experiment of the United States end in a failure, and every day our rights are eroded, we get closer to that. If you watch television, you will think that the world is becoming worse. After all, news is only when rare things happen, and usually very bad things at that. Now, I am not saying that that criminal justice system is in need of a huge overhaul. It is a real human right p…

You are forgetting there is a difference between the perception of freedom and actual freedom. While someone may be free to write about the problem, if there is no change in the system, is there actual freedom?

People in the US often equate the freedom of the press, which is under attack as it is, with freedom. The freedom to speak is not the freedom to act, and for many reasons rightly so. In this case, if the justice system doesn't uphold justice, we end up with only an escape valve for the pressure, but no change in the fundamental system.

Looking at the last 50 years, I would find it hard to say that everyone has it better. Look at the convictions for possession of crack cocaine versus cocaine powder. Things have gotten better for some people, but for many others, the world hasn't changed that much, especially for minorities in criminal cases.

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#14

Post by bagels »

_greim_ wrote: post #5

In the interest of hearing both sides of the story, can someone explain what legitimate complaints prosecutors may have about these developments, if any?

They fear corrupt judges, perhaps, theoretically. Maybe the proliferation of laws that make everything illegal.

But probably, they just want immunity for their crimes.

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#15

Post by briantakita »

Crito wrote: post #3

In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples" . It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples . Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples . Etc. What is interes…

The Los Angeles prosecutors are very nasty. Especially in Van Nuys where I know a woman & her experience. She was afraid of going to court because she was taken to jail a couple of times in a row. A simple case of petty theft ended up costing over $20k in legal fees, court costs, & other opportunists scamming money from her. Courts don't try to work with the defendants. They have strict rules and breaking a rule means being punished, usually through loss of freedom and/or some heavy fine.

It's difficult to speak out about this because people don't want to pay heed to, nor believe, "criminals". Our society is intolerant & also complicit with these injustices. It's quite often to have measures to have "zero tolerance" and "lock up criminals and throw away the key". There is collateral damage with such measures.

Such measures is tantamount to creating an underclass who can be easily taken advantage of and who have little voice and no sympathy.

Note: She also had some emotional issues. Being put in jail for minor incursions does not help. Instead, it rips apart her life & the lives of those who try to help her.

---

@crito - Now you know a bit more about where my "persecution complex" comes from. People who are in a judgmental frame of mind show little restraint when meting out punishment. It's f*cked up & unhealthy. At risk of sounding like I have a victim mentality, there's more.

That's why I'm a proponent of a tolerant society. People make mistakes. People have unhealthy viewpoints. Our society feels a strong desire to blame & punish others. However, judgement only makes things worse for everybody by perpetuating the cycle.

It's far better to encourage health & rehabilitation. But then, there are entrenched interests who want to, or at least have no compunction to, keep the majority of the population down. Thus they encourage a perpetual state of fear.

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#16

Post by sseveran »

fleitz wrote: post #11
MBlume wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: I don't understand how the "few bad apples" defense always seems to be used to argue for "so ignore it" rather than "and by the way, when we find a bad apple, it goes straight in the garbage disposal where it belongs". Like, all these prosecutors are going apeshit because a judge dared to say they should possibly lose their licenses -- what about the idea that they should serve time, time comparable to what…

I don't think they should lose their licenses, they should be tried for contempt and the mandatory minimum applied. Prosecutors might be well served in these instances by the judge refusing a plea bargain as is their prerogative.

Mike Nifong is a good example of someone who abused his office. Wikipedia calls him a "rouge" prosecutor. Maybe he wasn't so rouge...

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#17

Post by thelastpizza »

Crito wrote: post #3

In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples" . It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples . Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples . Etc. What is interes…

I always thought it was just about how people judge apples. That's like if the laws of physics and biology had a real example of broken window theory.

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#18

Post by dllthomas »

Crito wrote: post #3

In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples" . It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples . Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples . Etc. What is interes…

Wait, it's not "a few bad apples are no big deal, dispose of them when something happens to get press"?

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#19

Post by Glyptodon »

Crito wrote: post #3

In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples" . It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples . Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples . Etc. What is interes…

Add on top of the few bad apples spoiling the barrel the fact that certain positions and jobs create quite strong arrogant bastard self-selection pressures and it's an extra recipe for disaster. It's the same as the NSA -- people who have doubts about the system or feel like being lenient will self-select out, just like those who believe in actual privacy and civil liberties will self-select out of the NSA, creating a remnant that's filled with group-thinking evil apples.

Frankly, I think we'd be better off selecting people are random from the population at large to be in such powerful positions.

Re: Judge says prosecutors should follow the law. Prosecutors revolt.

#20

Post by thesteamboat »

sseveran wrote: post #16
fleitz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they should lose their licenses, they should be tried for contempt and the mandatory minimum applied. Prosecutors might be well served in these instances by the judge refusing a plea bargain as is their prerogative.

Mike Nifong is a good example of someone who abused his office. Wikipedia calls him a "rouge" prosecutor. Maybe he wasn't so rouge...

Off-topic pedantic point. Ro_gu_e is an adjective that means without guidance or lacking oversight. Ro_ug_e is a type of cosmetic, namely one for making the cheeks redder. While the image of a red-faced prosecutor screaming at his clerks is amusing, I don't think it's what you had in mind.

Sorry to distract from your otherwise valid comment.

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