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The Decline of the Mobile Web

cdixon.org

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Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#91

Post by untog »

bennettfeely wrote: post #75
untog wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can use location information. And gyroscope and accelerometer. The issue is that apps are diverting attention - otherwise mobile browsers might have implemented push notifications for pages by now. Firefox OS does it, and Safari on desktop has notifications. It's close, but no-one is shouting at the manufacturers to push it over the line.

HTML5 is catching up though, the Device orientation API, getUserMedia API, Notification API, etc. bring native app functionality to websites.

Right but what incentive does Apple have to implement that spec?

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#92

Post by joshfraser »

protomyth wrote: post #60

Which is easier to code: a mobile app or a mobile website? The tools are much better for the mobile app and it is much easier to do cool stuff. Plus the testing time is much quicker. Path of least resistance and biggest wow.

I don't agree that mobile apps are easier to build than mobile websites. Certainly not for anyone with a background in building for the web.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#93

Post by thebokehwokeh2 »

jsnk wrote: post #13

I wrote about this problem here ( http://serv.github.io/blog/2014/02/20/unfortunate-state-of-m... ). Mobile Web sucks because there's an incentive problem. No one really has strong incentive to make mobile web better. Performance issues are largely an effect of this root incentive problem. (edited from "cause" to "effect") - Users have a strong preconceived notion that websites on mobile just suck compared to native…

As a developer working in the "mobile web" sphere, the first notion is completely on point. In terms of usability, native will always overpower non-native avenues, creating smoother user experiences and a lot more "flash" in the UI tier that non-technical users associate with quality.

As Joe-user, would you use a severely underpowered web app or a smooth as butter with fancy transitions native one?

As long as that is the case, the "mobile web" as the main method of creating applications will always lag behind.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#94

Post by evmar »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #85

Cached URL: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.cdi... (It's erroring out in production.)

Here's the text-only cached URL (your link wouldn't load for me because it was blocked on stylesheets or whatever)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.cdi...

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#95

Post by bryanlarsen »

untog wrote: post #19
stevewilhelm wrote: post #16

Mobile websites can not send push notifications, use location information, receive iBeacon broadcasts, etc. To provide a state of the art user experience on mobile devices, you need to write an app.

They can use location information. And gyroscope and accelerometer. The issue is that apps are diverting attention - otherwise mobile browsers might have implemented push notifications for pages by now. Firefox OS does it, and Safari on desktop has notifications. It's close, but no-one is shouting at the manufacturers to push it over the line.

Push notifications would be great.

one example.

Flowdock has a great web site that works great on mobile. Their Android app used to be a stinking POS. They then rewrote it to replace the Web View with native to get a different POS. If browsers just supported notifications I could use their web site rather than their app POS.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#96

Post by protomyth »

joshfraser wrote: post #92
protomyth wrote: post #60

Which is easier to code: a mobile app or a mobile website? The tools are much better for the mobile app and it is much easier to do cool stuff. Plus the testing time is much quicker. Path of least resistance and biggest wow.

I don't agree that mobile apps are easier to build than mobile websites. Certainly not for anyone with a background in building for the web.

Which particular development tools do you use that are easier than the mobile equivalents?

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#97

Post by Iftheshoefits »

IpxqwidxG wrote: post #68
rimantas wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While native has had roughly seven years lead Nope, it has not. Remember, web apps were first on iPhone, before native third party apps. And that's not to mention "common" web. Also, the roots of HTML5 go back to 2004 when whatwg was formed. > when it comes to providing quality online experience, > web apps can beat native easily. You have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone speaking this: please, find a tim…

Trust me you can provide consumers all of this... 1. Pleasant to work with, 2. Performant enough, 3. Butter smooth usability ... with HTML5 and decent browser support (and significant effort of front-end developers no doubt) without having to download an app on your mobile. Native SDKs are important, I agree with you, but future isn't in them.

It really depends on what you want to do. If all you're interested in is presenting a static(-ish) web page with some "extra" interaction, then sure.

If you want to do anything that harnesses the hardware or computing capability of the device, or anything more complicated the most basic HTML-based UI, then native apps are the way to go. This is independent of whether we're talking about mobile or desktop.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#98

Post by fidotron »

untog wrote: post #70
milesskorpen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assessment seems to suggest this is a perception issue. But even the best mobile websites really are second-tier to solid (not even top tier) native apps. And as smartphones become more and more sophisticated sensor platforms, this will become even more problematic.

And as smartphones become more and more sophisticated sensor platforms, this will become even more problematic. Not if mobile browsers keep up with these more sophisticated platforms. The problem (as the OP outlined) is that there are decreasing incentives people like Apple to keep improving their mobile browser. They hold the keys, and they want apps.

I agree that this is a significant factor in the problem, but it is far from the only one.

The problems with the mobile web are far broader than that. Being tied to JavaScript (a language whose semantics remove significant optimisation opportunities, unless you write in something else and target via asm.js), a UI layer that doesn't cleanly map to being hardware accelerated, and missing or incomplete APIs for everything from Bluetooth to push messaging.

If you look at the Chrome APIs (that is the stuff Chrome apps get access to) there is neat stuff, and they are attacking it slowly enough that what APIs they produce are sane, and this is clearly what they see as the future. The problem is the world moves faster than that, and just as the web people are beginning to even grok mobile they're going to be smacked around the head by an absolute explosion of tiny devices.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#99

Post by untog »

fidotron wrote: post #98
untog wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as smartphones become more and more sophisticated sensor platforms, this will become even more problematic. Not if mobile browsers keep up with these more sophisticated platforms. The problem (as the OP outlined) is that there are decreasing incentives people like Apple to keep improving their mobile browser. They hold the keys, and they want apps.

I agree that this is a significant factor in the problem, but it is far from the only one. The problems with the mobile web are far broader than that. Being tied to JavaScript (a language whose semantics remove significant optimisation opportunities, unless you write in something else and target via asm.js), a UI layer that doesn't cleanly map to being hardware accelerated, and missing or incomplete APIs for everythi…

Being tied to JavaScript (a language whose semantics remove significant optimisation opportunities, unless you write in something else and target via asm.js)

In a world where V8 exists, I'm not so sure. JS running on the main thread absolutely is a problem, and Web Workers are a clunky solution.

a UI layer that doesn't cleanly map to being hardware accelerated

Agreed this part is tricky. But existing hardware acceleration on mobile web isn't that bad.

missing or incomplete APIs for everything from Bluetooth to push messaging.

Mozilla is working on all this for Firefox OS, but of course no-one has incentive to agree with them.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#100

Post by arrrg »

josu wrote: post #58
msvan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a scrapeability problem; it's a freedom problem. The article mentions this. Why should the app stores decide what can and cannot be on our phones, and why should they add a 30% tax on everything that is published on mobile? There are a lot of claims that the tech industry is disrupting the big music and books businesses, for the benefit of consumers, but these new players are acting like the middlemen they a…

>Why should the app stores decide what can and cannot be on our phones This is not a freedom problem. You have the freedom to buy an Android device, and you have the freedom to install any apk you want without ever even opening the Google app store. Moreover, Google even allows 3rd party app stores on their devices. And of course these new players are acting as middlemen, but you are forgetting the fundamental differ…

That argument definitely doesn’t work for Apple but it also doesn’t really work for Google.

Yeah, installing any apk is possible, but hard to do. Any apks and apps in the app store are a million miles from being on equal footing.

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