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The Decline of the Mobile Web

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Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#61

Post by unclebucknasty »

jsnk wrote: post #13

I wrote about this problem here ( http://serv.github.io/blog/2014/02/20/unfortunate-state-of-m... ). Mobile Web sucks because there's an incentive problem. No one really has strong incentive to make mobile web better. Performance issues are largely an effect of this root incentive problem. (edited from "cause" to "effect") - Users have a strong preconceived notion that websites on mobile just suck compared to native…

I must be in the minority, but I don't have a problem with full-desktop sites on my mobile. In fact, my browser settings have "Request Desktop Site" as the default.

And, as mobile screen sizes and 4G availability increase, it seems that it would be less of a problem running full-site versions on mobiles going forward.

Maybe more of this issue will resolve as Apple moves to larger screen sizes, but I have always had the impression that mobile-sites were a stop-gap until higher-bandwidth and larger screens became the norm. Reminds me of the short-lived WAP standard before smartphones became de rigueur.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#62

Post by exelius »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #43
gitah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google gets to act as middle men because their app store provides value to the end user. Users are free to use the mobile browser on their phones but most of the time native apps are a better experience. And guess who develops the framework and tools to create these value-adding native apps. This is the free market at work.

> This is the free market at work The free market sometimes leads to a not-so-free market, which is ultimately bad for consumers. This is the entire reason there is anti-trust law.

But there's not an anti-trust situation with app stores: Apple, Microsoft and Google all maintain their own app stores. No, they don't let anyone else operate an app store on their mobile platform, but other companies are free to create their own mobile platforms if they don't like that. Apple and Google aren't doing anything illegal to stop other mobile platforms from existing; it's just that users really don't want another platform right now.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#63

Post by Joeri »

orky56 wrote: post #14

Discovery, usage, and feedback are all more polished in native apps rather than on mobile web. Mobile web is the wild west in terms of experience and more of a stepping stone until you get frustrated enough to download the app or ditch that service altogether if they don't have a native app. Mobile web has lost many of its benefits due to some very distinct reasons. Lack a stable Internet connection? Native wins Home…

I built a mobile web app that leveraged html 5 app cache so you could use it offline, and used metadata so that when put on the home screen it had a proper icon and when launched there was no browser chrome (on ios). It worked fine, and yet the guy who took over development ended up wrapping it. It made it easier to sell.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#64

Post by Phlarp »

josu wrote: post #58
msvan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a scrapeability problem; it's a freedom problem. The article mentions this. Why should the app stores decide what can and cannot be on our phones, and why should they add a 30% tax on everything that is published on mobile? There are a lot of claims that the tech industry is disrupting the big music and books businesses, for the benefit of consumers, but these new players are acting like the middlemen they a…

>Why should the app stores decide what can and cannot be on our phones This is not a freedom problem. You have the freedom to buy an Android device, and you have the freedom to install any apk you want without ever even opening the Google app store. Moreover, Google even allows 3rd party app stores on their devices. And of course these new players are acting as middlemen, but you are forgetting the fundamental differ…

>There are no gatekeepers, who decide what gets published and what doesn't, anymore.

Except Apple.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#65

Post by kayoone »

Reality is that the mobile web experience currently is worse than native mobile apps. No matter how much you want "open", or how much faster your latest web-mobile framework is, right now people still prefer the app experience. That might change, but i suspect it will take some time.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#66

Post by Zigurd »

rimantas wrote: post #37
msvan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a scrapeability problem; it's a freedom problem. The article mentions this. Why should the app stores decide what can and cannot be on our phones, and why should they add a 30% tax on everything that is published on mobile? There are a lot of claims that the tech industry is disrupting the big music and books businesses, for the benefit of consumers, but these new players are acting like the middlemen they a…

How about letting me to decide what I want on my phone? And if I prefer apps to the ad-ridden, third-party-tracking-code infested web pages, so be it?

Some apps are at least as evil. And, like Web pages, most of the evil comes from ad support in the apps.

Google could go quite far to fix this by enabling users to selectively turn off permissions, and requiring developers to handle SecurityException.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#67

Post by outside1234 »

josu wrote: post #58
msvan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a scrapeability problem; it's a freedom problem. The article mentions this. Why should the app stores decide what can and cannot be on our phones, and why should they add a 30% tax on everything that is published on mobile? There are a lot of claims that the tech industry is disrupting the big music and books businesses, for the benefit of consumers, but these new players are acting like the middlemen they a…

>Why should the app stores decide what can and cannot be on our phones This is not a freedom problem. You have the freedom to buy an Android device, and you have the freedom to install any apk you want without ever even opening the Google app store. Moreover, Google even allows 3rd party app stores on their devices. And of course these new players are acting as middlemen, but you are forgetting the fundamental differ…

All of that is patently false:

You can't publish any App on the Apple AppStore but only those that are kid-friendly.

You can't publish a shopping app on Apple's AppStore for free - you have to hand over all of your margin to Apple.

Apple is a gatekeeper. They decide what gets published and what doesn't.

What am I missing?

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#68

Post by IpxqwidxG »

rimantas wrote: post #53
IpxqwidxG wrote: post #9

In my opinion mobile web is yet to arrive, we have just gotten HTML5 standards finalized only about an year ago. While native has had roughly seven years lead when it comes to providing quality online experience, web apps can beat native easily. And no it's not that web apps or web development or talent for mobile web development is limited or is the bottleneck. The bottleneck is usually the vendors and support of st…

> While native has had roughly seven years lead Nope, it has not. Remember, web apps were first on iPhone, before native third party apps. And that's not to mention "common" web. Also, the roots of HTML5 go back to 2004 when whatwg was formed. > when it comes to providing quality online experience, > web apps can beat native easily. You have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone speaking this: please, find a tim…

Trust me you can provide consumers all of this...

1. Pleasant to work with, 2. Performant enough, 3. Butter smooth usability

... with HTML5 and decent browser support (and significant effort of front-end developers no doubt) without having to download an app on your mobile. Native SDKs are important, I agree with you, but future isn't in them.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#69

Post by _random_ »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #25

It seems 'mobile apps' are like Flash was in the 90's, basically a way to take full control over the UX to achieve some particular goal. Given the preponderance of such apps it seems as if home screens are due for a make over that looks more like iPod music libraries than 'desktop.' Basically something which supports dozens if not hundreds of apps on a device.

It also reminds of bookmarks in a browser. Kind of a choice between rapid availability and smooth experience.

Re: The Decline of the Mobile Web

#70

Post by untog »

milesskorpen wrote: post #35
jsnk wrote: post #13

I wrote about this problem here ( http://serv.github.io/blog/2014/02/20/unfortunate-state-of-m... ). Mobile Web sucks because there's an incentive problem. No one really has strong incentive to make mobile web better. Performance issues are largely an effect of this root incentive problem. (edited from "cause" to "effect") - Users have a strong preconceived notion that websites on mobile just suck compared to native…

Your assessment seems to suggest this is a perception issue. But even the best mobile websites really are second-tier to solid (not even top tier) native apps. And as smartphones become more and more sophisticated sensor platforms, this will become even more problematic.

And as smartphones become more and more sophisticated sensor platforms, this will become even more problematic.

Not if mobile browsers keep up with these more sophisticated platforms. The problem (as the OP outlined) is that there are decreasing incentives people like Apple to keep improving their mobile browser. They hold the keys, and they want apps.

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