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Agony of an African programmer

iafrikan.com

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Re: Agony of an African programmer

#91

Post by graemian »

pjc50 wrote: post #90
graemian wrote: post #78

Get out of Africa. Africa will steal your life. If you choose to stay in Africa and have your potential limited by silly things like bad Internet and no electricity, then make that choice consciously, and for good reasons, like wanting to be near family. If you stay because you feel some deeper connection to Africa because you were born there, get over it. Get out of your comfort zone, live your own life. Consider ca…

You've not noticed the massive barriers to legal immigration being built in the West, have you?

You've found an excuse to give up on your dreams, have you?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#92

Post by KhalPanda »

> A web and software developer in Africa earns from $10,000 to $20,000 dollars per annum whereas their colleagues in Europe and the US earns at least $100,000 dollars per year.

"at least $100,000 dollars per year"

..."at least $100,000 dollars per year"

Where can I find one of these mythical minimum-100k-salary programming jobs, without having 10+ years of experience and working for a massive tech company?

Source: UK twenty-something.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#93

Post by jwr »

I would gladly start working with programmers in Africa. I'm based in Europe (Poland), and for a long time I've been thinking about how we're working with people around the globe while completely ignoring the huge continent that is right within ±2h of our timezone.

The problem begins with the word "Africa". Obviously, this is a meaningless word, describing an entire continent full of radically different countries. And yet we use it. I know how I get annoyed when my country gets generalized as "Eastern Europe" (first, we're Central Europe, and second, countries in this part of Europe are quite different from each other). I can't even imagine what it feels to be thrown into an "Africa" bucket.

Then there is the issue of whom to work with (and where), how to start, how to build trust. It's just immensely difficult. I know next to nothing about African countries, much less about major cities, good schools, places where I could find programmers and business partners.

I am hoping for more ties between European and African developers and entrepreneurs, so that we can start working together. Which would hopefully make the life of an African programmer easier, at least on a practical (economic) level.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#94

Post by buyx »

wilsonfiifi wrote: post #77

This article is an interesting read that I can relate to, moreover, the author is from Ghana where I currently reside so I understand the challenges he's referring to. I however think that the issues raised are the same generalist ones being made about business/entrepreneurship in Africa that don't go deep enough to address the root causes of the challenges, the solutions successful people are implementing and some p…

Regarding fraud, I think that African (huge generalisation) governments just don't seem to take it seriously enough. Even in South Africa, where every SIM card should be registered, it isn't uncommon to see phishing emails with local numbers.

Companies also don't really care: phones stolen in one African country are sold in others (South Africa to Nigeria seems to be one popular route), and blacklists aren't shared cross-border. In South Africa, SIM-swap scams result in people's bank accounts being cleared out with cellular networks and banks both disclaiming responsibility.

Until the attitude to this sort of fraud changes, I don't blame payment companies for staying away from Africa.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#95

Post by graemian »

pjc50 wrote: post #90
graemian wrote: post #78

Get out of Africa. Africa will steal your life. If you choose to stay in Africa and have your potential limited by silly things like bad Internet and no electricity, then make that choice consciously, and for good reasons, like wanting to be near family. If you stay because you feel some deeper connection to Africa because you were born there, get over it. Get out of your comfort zone, live your own life. Consider ca…

You've not noticed the massive barriers to legal immigration being built in the West, have you?

Remember that immigration effort is once-off, and the payoff is life-long.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#96

Post by paolomaffei »

KhalPanda wrote: post #92

> A web and software developer in Africa earns from $10,000 to $20,000 dollars per annum whereas their colleagues in Europe and the US earns at least $100,000 dollars per year. "at least $100,000 dollars per year" ..."at least $100,000 dollars per year" Where can I find one of these mythical minimum-100k-salary programming jobs, without having 10+ years of experience and working for a massive tech company? Source: UK…

In London with 5 years experience that's a reasonable estimation for web developers, especially if you are contracting

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#97

Post by V-2 »

paolomaffei wrote: post #96
KhalPanda wrote: post #92

> A web and software developer in Africa earns from $10,000 to $20,000 dollars per annum whereas their colleagues in Europe and the US earns at least $100,000 dollars per year. "at least $100,000 dollars per year" ..."at least $100,000 dollars per year" Where can I find one of these mythical minimum-100k-salary programming jobs, without having 10+ years of experience and working for a massive tech company? Source: UK…

In London with 5 years experience that's a reasonable estimation for web developers, especially if you are contracting

If anything, that's an average for well-seasoned developers in one of the best paying cities in Europe. Not a minimum salary ("at least") of a regular programmer in Europe in general.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#98

Post by V-2 »

While 100k (especially as a minimum treshold) is an overestimate even for richest European countries, "Europe" is not equal to "just Western Europe" or "just a bunch of richest countries in Western Europe", as some seem to think.

Apart from the UK, Switzerland or Germany, there are countries like Greece and Portugal, and there's Central and Eastern Europe, too.

Median programmer salary in Poland is 5500 zl, which is about 3900 zl after deductions and 1 USD = ~3 zl, so it's 22 thousands per anum (gross pay) or 15.6 grand net pay.

Grass is always greener, huh?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#99

Post by pjmlp »

w1ntermute wrote: post #58
mbesto wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI - Another one I learned while being in Europe is FIGS, which sort of represents the "more economically developed" Euro languages - French, Italian, German, Spanish. This pretty much covers every nation you would need to speak to in order to do legitimate business in Europe. (Scandinavia generally will do business with English speakers)

The Germans are pretty solid English speakers too. More so than the French, Italians, or Spaniards, anyway.

I live in Germany, good luck trying to speak English outside the big cities or people with lower levels of education.

Thankfully it doesn't matter to me as I speak the language fluently.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#100

Post by roel_v »

atmosx wrote: post #39
tty wrote: post #22

>"A web and software developer in Africa earns from $10,000 to $20,000 dollars per annum whereas their colleagues in Europe and the US earns at least $100,000 dollars per year." Either he doesn't consider Eastern European softwware developers as colleagues or he thinks all of Europe is London, which it certainly isn't. The upper limit he gave is more than most Eastern European developers make.

In Greece PhD level programmers make from 25-35 EUR[1]. It's abotu 26,5k with taxes paid. It's extremely bad, but that's the Greek reality apparently and Greece (was supposed to be) in Europe last time I checked. A normal BSc programmer is around 1,5k/month. You get the (sad) picture... [1] http://www.dotnetzone.gr/cs/forums/thread/34443.aspx

"In Greece PhD level programmers make from 25-35 EUR[1]. It's abotu 26,5k with taxes paid. It's extremely bad, but that's the Greek reality apparently"

Uh that's pretty decent anywhere in Europe for anyone doing actual 'programming', i.e. not management or consulting, so basically meaning all junior- to mid-level software development jobs. I'm not even sure what 'PhD level programmer' means - it's not like 'programming' is an academic exercise.

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