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Agony of an African programmer

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Re: Agony of an African programmer

#81

Post by deciplex »

graemian wrote: post #78

Get out of Africa. Africa will steal your life. If you choose to stay in Africa and have your potential limited by silly things like bad Internet and no electricity, then make that choice consciously, and for good reasons, like wanting to be near family. If you stay because you feel some deeper connection to Africa because you were born there, get over it. Get out of your comfort zone, live your own life. Consider ca…

I agree with you. This is basically the reason I left the US ten years ago. However, there is something to be said for staying and improving the place where you were born and raised - and that goes double (or triple!) if you feel a connection to that place and its people. I definitely think it would be out of line to tell people trying to improve the lot of themselves and their nation that they should 'get over it'.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#82

Post by DanBC »

graemian wrote: post #78

Get out of Africa. Africa will steal your life. If you choose to stay in Africa and have your potential limited by silly things like bad Internet and no electricity, then make that choice consciously, and for good reasons, like wanting to be near family. If you stay because you feel some deeper connection to Africa because you were born there, get over it. Get out of your comfort zone, live your own life. Consider ca…

What continents should someone try? What's the immigration procedure like?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#83

Post by troels »

wobbleblob wrote: post #74
doktrin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, Software Developers in the US and Europe don't necessarily make 100,000 Dollars. In some spots you'd be luck y to make half that. This is correct. Moreover, European salaries are also often lower than those in the US tech hubs. I would also go so far as to say that nowhere in the US does a median web developer's salary afford her/him a particularly luxurious lifestyle. Salaries are always adjusted, among othe…

Here in Western Europe, earning $100,000 per year would be exceptional. You would have to be both self employed and a highly valued rockstar developer to make anything in that ballpark. A third to half that much is more common, and that doesn't take cost of living into account. Paying $15,000 a year in rent and another $10,000 in utilities for less than 1000 sqft of living space, another few thousand per year for a p…

Europe is a diverse place - From my experience, 100K isn't unreasonable for a seasoned programmer in London or in most of scandinavia. You'd be lucky to get half that in the less well-off countries, even within EU. And outside of EU, well ..

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#84

Post by troels »

randunel wrote: post #7

This description sounds a lot like eastern europe :) When I used to live there, electricity was only available when it wasn't raining. The internet was really crappy and it used to cost a pretty big percentage of my salary. Investors were practically non existent, and the brain drain took its toll on any innovation attempt (alongside the corruption). I have now left eastern europe for a better western country, and I…

Wouldn't an UPS be useful for offsetting the power supply problem? Even just a laptop with a battery in would help you through intermittent fallouts. And for longer stretches, a diesel generator should work. What am I missing?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#85

Post by graemian »

limpon wrote: post #79
graemian wrote: post #78

Get out of Africa. Africa will steal your life. If you choose to stay in Africa and have your potential limited by silly things like bad Internet and no electricity, then make that choice consciously, and for good reasons, like wanting to be near family. If you stay because you feel some deeper connection to Africa because you were born there, get over it. Get out of your comfort zone, live your own life. Consider ca…

Wow, it seems like you don't really know what you're talking about. It's not easy to move away if you're born and grew up in Africa. It's not like renting a U-Haul, pack your stuff and drive across the country. You need a visa. But it's impossible to get a visa to work in US/Europe unless you have a job. And even trying and applying for a visa costs more than most people's monthly salary. And there is no money-back g…

I was born in Africa and I'm trying to get out right now. It's not easy, but it's not impossible. I didn't get as good a deal in the birthplace lottery as Steve Jobs and others born in Silicon Valley, but I'll be damned if I'll use that as an excuse for a life of mediocrity.

Frankly, if the factors you describe are really what's stopping you from reaching your goals, you're likely to fail anyway.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#86

Post by darronz »

The author forgot to mention something; Finding good staff.

Finding staff is difficult because of the scarcity of developers and anyone talented almost always has a job paying far more than a startup can afford.

Training juniors is the only alternative, but in doing so your company ends up being a training shop for other companies to headhunt from.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#87

Post by nitrogen »

null_ptr wrote: post #49
AdrianRossouw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite. I'm south african, but I don't want to have to download your native application to get locked into yet another walled garden. Most of the apps I want to use don't make sense without internet access anyway.

How do native applications lock you into a walled garden and web applications don't? It's the opposite. Native applications mean you own the data you work with instead of surrendering it to a remote server you have no control over. It means you will be able to use that data even after the provider decides that the application is not profitable any more and they take it offline.

Is one of you talking about desktop apps while the other is referring to smartphone apps?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#88

Post by batoure »

jonahx wrote: post #48
batoure wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are doing basic programming and database work for small banks and businesses. The thing that is important that he said is... >Add to that, a good number of African countries have been blacklisted from PayPal. I actually tried to set some friends up doing work on odesk and elancer. It is simply not possible this part of the world(west africa, cote d'ivoire, ghana, togo, benin, nigeria) is basically cut off from i…

That makes sense... I wonder if there's an opportunity there for someone who is part of that elite to act as a go-between of sorts. I could imagine they have their payments sent to a PayPal in US or UK, etc, and then the account holder wires money to someone with an actual bank account in one of the countries you listed, who dispenses the money back in cash to the workers. I doubt there would be much money in it for…

yeah the problem is, that's pretty much what the point of sites like elance and odesk are, is to act as a go between and limit risk. So maybe there is just a niche for someone to cater to that area.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#89

Post by graemian »

deciplex wrote: post #81
graemian wrote: post #78

Get out of Africa. Africa will steal your life. If you choose to stay in Africa and have your potential limited by silly things like bad Internet and no electricity, then make that choice consciously, and for good reasons, like wanting to be near family. If you stay because you feel some deeper connection to Africa because you were born there, get over it. Get out of your comfort zone, live your own life. Consider ca…

I agree with you. This is basically the reason I left the US ten years ago. However, there is something to be said for staying and improving the place where you were born and raised - and that goes double (or triple!) if you feel a connection to that place and its people. I definitely think it would be out of line to tell people trying to improve the lot of themselves and their nation that they should 'get over it'.

I genuinely wish those who "feel for Africa" the best of luck in their endeavors to improve it. I'm just not one of them. I urge anyone who thinks they feel this obligation to carefully consider it: is it genuine, or is it just an excuse to stay in your comfort zone?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#90

Post by pjc50 »

graemian wrote: post #78

Get out of Africa. Africa will steal your life. If you choose to stay in Africa and have your potential limited by silly things like bad Internet and no electricity, then make that choice consciously, and for good reasons, like wanting to be near family. If you stay because you feel some deeper connection to Africa because you were born there, get over it. Get out of your comfort zone, live your own life. Consider ca…

You've not noticed the massive barriers to legal immigration being built in the West, have you?
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