Agony of an African programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#11

Post by guard-of-terra » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:55 PM UTC

randunel wrote: post #7

This description sounds a lot like eastern europe :) When I used to live there, electricity was only available when it wasn't raining. The internet was really crappy and it used to cost a pretty big percentage of my salary. Investors were practically non existent, and the brain drain took its toll on any innovation attempt (alongside the corruption). I have now left eastern europe for a better western country, and I…

I can totally relate to this, but it gets better, doesn't it? Today Internet is often faster and cheaper in the eastern europe than in the west. We no longer need computer books so much. As for brain drain, it's more of an opportunity if you're a developer.

On the other hand, we have every piece of software available in the pirated form and had no shame of using that. Haven't we?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#12

Post by guard-of-terra » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:58 PM UTC

mtct wrote: post #5

cliveowen wrote: post #3

"A web and software developer in Africa earns from $10,000 to $20,000 dollars per annum whereas their colleagues in Europe and the US earns at least $100,000 dollars per year." I don't think this is factually true. That said, the article really makes you think how much easy we have it in the developed world, yet we always find the time to complain about everything.

I, in Italy, as a junior software developer, earn €17000/year. And genuinely I'm not complaining.

Doesn't sound like much. What lifestyle do you afford on this? Any improvement prospects?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#13

Post by doktrin » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:59 PM UTC

matt__rose wrote: post #4

Africa is a big place. From what I hear, Nairobi is one of the most interesting places to be an entrepreneur these days. Yes, there are huge challenges all over africa including, but not limited to, corruption, unreliable power, political instability, and terrible infrastructure. But this very constraint is what drives projects like M-PESA, and Ushahidi, and BRCK. Also, Software Developers in the US and Europe don't…

> Also, Software Developers in the US and Europe don't necessarily make 100,000 Dollars. In some spots you'd be luck y to make half that.

This is correct. Moreover, European salaries are also often lower than those in the US tech hubs.

I would also go so far as to say that nowhere in the US does a median web developer's salary afford her/him a particularly luxurious lifestyle. Salaries are always adjusted, among other things, for regional cost of living.

When I made 6 figures in Washington DC, it afforded me roughly the same standard of living I have in Pittsburgh while making $30k less. That is to say : access to a studio or 1-bedroom apartment, a low cost vehicle and the ability to socialize occasionally while still contributing modestly towards my savings.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#14

Post by forrestthewoods » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 9:59 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #9

mtct wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, in Italy, as a junior software developer, earn €17000/year. And genuinely I'm not complaining.

Yeah, it's not really accurate for the PIGS , and even in northern Europe, it's not as high as in the States.

Possibly a dumb question, what does PIGS mean?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#15

Post by bdcravens » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 10:03 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #9

mtct wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, in Italy, as a junior software developer, earn €17000/year. And genuinely I'm not complaining.

Yeah, it's not really accurate for the PIGS , and even in northern Europe, it's not as high as in the States.

I had to look the term up, but my first guess was correct ("Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIGS_(economics)

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#16

Post by sthatipamala » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 10:03 PM UTC

forrestthewoods wrote: post #14

w1ntermute wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's not really accurate for the PIGS , and even in northern Europe, it's not as high as in the States.

Possibly a dumb question, what does PIGS mean?

Maybe "Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain"?

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#17

Post by chestnut-tree » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 10:05 PM UTC

The patchy and expensive internet access that many people around the world experience really emphasises the importance of offline or native apps. There's a relentless (and in my view unnecesary) push by many technology companies to run everything online as if it's some natural progression we should all be moving towards. Some of us, even with broadband access, don't want to run apps in the cloud, (where everything we do is gleefully tracked and recorded). It's clearly to the benefit of many companies to push for an "online first" approach, but I feel it's unsuitable for many apps. I'm not convinced it's a better experience for users either.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#18

Post by mtct » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 10:07 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #12

mtct wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, in Italy, as a junior software developer, earn €17000/year. And genuinely I'm not complaining.

Doesn't sound like much. What lifestyle do you afford on this? Any improvement prospects?

Better than half of my peers for sure.

Of course you can grow with time, both in salary and in responsibility, for now I'm the classical code monkey but I have an idea for a startup that would like to develop so I will leave the job before the end of the year.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#19

Post by wsc981 » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 10:10 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #12

mtct wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, in Italy, as a junior software developer, earn €17000/year. And genuinely I'm not complaining.

Doesn't sound like much. What lifestyle do you afford on this? Any improvement prospects?

I've read that many "young" Italians live in their parents house at least until their early 30s. Maybe he's in the same situation.

Re: Agony of an African programmer

#20

Post by rodgerd » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 10:11 PM UTC

delinka wrote: post #8

cliveowen wrote: post #3

"A web and software developer in Africa earns from $10,000 to $20,000 dollars per annum whereas their colleagues in Europe and the US earns at least $100,000 dollars per year." I don't think this is factually true. That said, the article really makes you think how much easy we have it in the developed world, yet we always find the time to complain about everything.

"I don't think this is factually true." Agreed. I work in a US metropolis. I don't know any web developers making $100,000 per year. I know seasoned software developers and engineers making that, but that is what experience costs. I can't really speak to the author's experience, but often, this downtrodden treatise on salary disparity tends to come from the younger, less-experienced programmers out there, regardless…

> Ultimately, comparing salary to distant economies is fallacious. This is why things like cost of living should be taken into account.

Yes, and it's easy to take things for if you aren't used to different cultural contexts. I know Kiwis who look enviously at Californian salaries without really properly understanding how much of that salary difference may go on e.g. healthcare costs that are taken care of from general taxation in New Zealand.