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Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

theatlantic.com

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Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#21

Post by moskie »

> Would American society be better off if stakeholders in various corporations began to investigate leadership's political activities on abortion and to lobby for the termination of anyone who took what they regard to be the immoral, damaging position?

I don't think it's useful to try to find some blanket rule that works for this case and all other cases somewhat similar to it.

There's a lot of variables in play. The likeliness of affecting change. Eich's worth as CEO. What Mozilla stands for. How his political beliefs and political actions relate to people. The list goes on. Each individual with an opinion on the matter made a call, factoring in the variables that are important to them, and acted accordingly.

If you find Eich's specific beliefs regarding gay marriage to be disgusting enough to suggest he not take the specific position of CEO of Mozilla, go for it. Does that mean that you should protest against every CEO of every company you have stake in, if you disagree with them on some political level? No, of course not. You should make the call on a case by case basis.

Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#22

Post by sliverstorm »

mikeash wrote: post #17
sliverstorm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing that needs to be done, is the public needs to learn & adjust its behavior. This is a sociopolitical problem, and I think it needs to be fixed by those means. Either through adjusting norms of socially accepted behavior (i.e. don't crucify someone for what they did 10 years ago) or through strong leadership from political figures/groups.

OK, and how do you do that exactly? Clearly calling people out publicly is not allowed. What's the proper approach for changing the public's behavior?

I don't really know. I can speculate- well-reasoned & accessible pieces that avoid throwing around blame (public figure). Friends speaking with friends (grassroots). Political guidance/commentary from The Party (political figure).

All I'm hoping for right now though, is that people will individually start to recognize the pattern & begin to lose their bloodlust.

Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#24

Post by npsimons »

sliverstorm wrote: post #10
mikeash wrote: post #6

Here's one thing I've been unable to understand throughout this whole controversy: What are we supposed to do about it? As far as I can tell, this was a completely grassroots thing with no organization, no central control, nothing. It just spontaneously happened . Now, I don't know how important this whole thing is. To me, it looks like an awful lot of fuss over a very little thing. But let's say that it is, in fact,…

The main thing that needs to be done, is the public needs to learn & adjust its behavior. This is a sociopolitical problem, and I think it needs to be fixed by those means. Either through adjusting norms of socially accepted behavior (i.e. don't crucify someone for what they did 10 years ago) or through strong leadership from political figures/groups.

Except for the fact that a large chunk of the support for _California's_ Prop8 came from outside the state (specifically: Mormon Utah), especially in the form of money. How do you counter that "sociopolitically"?

That aside, I can agree that someone shouldn't be crucified for a bad decision that is well in the past, especially if they've learned the error of their ways.

Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#25

Post by benched »

nailer wrote: post #7

"Does anyone doubt that had a business fired a CEO six years ago for making a political donation against Prop 8, liberals silent during this controversy (or supportive of the resignation) would've argued that contributions have nothing to do with a CEO's ability to do his job?" I also suspect many of the outspoken opponents against devout Christian viewpoints (or exercising those viewpoints - various people have insi…

And I think that people who can say things like this really just don't feel gay rights are as important as other people's rights. Like they're optional. Like we did them a favor letting them get married, and now they're just being mean.

Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#26

Post by themoonbus »

I'm still not sure where I fall on this issue, but one thing people sometimes leave out of the discussion is the fact that a CEO is the public face of the company. Part of your job is to "embody" or communicate the brand, mission, what have you, of the company you represent, and I don't think Eich had the ability to do that. His interview with the Guardian was bizarre, and not what I'd expect from a CEO dealing with controversy.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/01/mozilla-ce...

Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#28

Post by sliverstorm »

It's sort of a dystopian fantasy that I don't really believe will actually happen, but you can easily picture the natural endgame for this sort of behavior. Much like union & non-union shops, you wind up with conservative & liberal companies. Not just companies that tend one way; companies that say "You want to work here? I'm sorry, I see you voted for Reagan, goodbye," Signs that read, "Liberals need not apply".

(Again, I know this is wild & somewhat exaggerated)

Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#29

Post by briantakita »

programminggeek wrote: post #15

Between the way our industry has handled this latest thing with Mozilla and the way that related issues like gender inequality is handled at various conferences, I am finding myself less and less wanting to be involved with the community at large. It feels more and more like if you disagree with what a very vocal minority believes, you are going to be ostracized to the point that you could lose your job. I have a fam…

It's not just the tech community. It's a broader issue with Social Media. I'm not sure if this is a minority view, however. It's mob justice.

I'm really bothered by this too. I feel like my freedom of expression is at risk by the internet mob.

Re: Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values

#30

Post by crusso »

nailer wrote: post #7

"Does anyone doubt that had a business fired a CEO six years ago for making a political donation against Prop 8, liberals silent during this controversy (or supportive of the resignation) would've argued that contributions have nothing to do with a CEO's ability to do his job?" I also suspect many of the outspoken opponents against devout Christian viewpoints (or exercising those viewpoints - various people have insi…

As a supporter of gay marriage, and somebody who believes spirituality isn't real, this still strikes me as picking on someone

Same here. To think that you can't even participate in the political process now without the thought police coming in years later to hold you accountable.

And some people wonder why various forms of political groups work so hard to keep their donor lists secret?

You can't have an open society when there are no reasonable limits on how people can judge and prosecute you for your privately held beliefs.

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