Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

news.ycombinator.com

51–60 of 62 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#52
Thank you all for the great advice. I think the cash out of the 401K idea is really a reaction to how miserable my current position is. The culture is terrible and I want out, now. So I'm going to use my vacation time to send out a ton of resumes, practice some coding puzzles, and hack away on some code that I can provide as polished, well thought out work.

I did apply for a job at Twitter months back, but failed miserably at the two 45 minute online "coding to solve a puzzle" interviews. I was nervous, and also was opposed to that style of interviewing, and it did not do well.

I realize I need to get over it, and just accept that some shops may interview that way. It may let me know that it may not be the place for me, or open a door to a good opportunity.

The number one thing for me is culture. That the culture works for me. For any company that I am seriously considering, I will request working on a small project with the team before I accept any offer. If I had done that for my current position, I would have never come on board.

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#53
post #3

Many of the world's best engineers don't have a Github / OSS contributions / Stack overflow / etc. They're still quite hireable. It is highly likely you are also hireable, even without a portfolio that you can conveniently point to, although that would be an asset. Do not cash out your retirement account. [Edit: Generic personal finance advice for everyone: Unless your children will starve in the snow otherwise, it i…

Also, cut your expenses, save 20%+ of salary, build up a 6-12 month emergency fund IN CASH or money market.

Then, if you lose your job or need to take time off, you aren't totally screwed.

Also, after-tax investments lets you fund personal projects without taking the huge penalty for raiding retirement savings.

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#54
I cashed out my 401k to start a company. I was in a unique situation where I started contributing to my 401k at the very bottom of the recession (luck). The returns on my 401k contributions were greater than 100% by the time I cashed out because the market had fully recovered. The company I previously worked for had 100% matching up to 15k. So, I looked at the penalty and figured since I had quadrupled my money, 10% didn't seem like a concern next to the possibility of creating a successful business.

Ended up working out. Was able to make that money back 5x in 6 months. It was a risky move and I could see it not panning out more often than not. But, to go against the grain here: there is no such thing as 'never'.

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#56
post #6

Absolutely not. You will have to pay taxes on withdrawals and a 10% early withdrawal penalty. Depending on the size of the withdrawal, this will immediately set you back 6-7 years of the 13 you contributed. If you have ~30 years to retire, even a small withdrawal will set you back by 10 years at retirement. Run some basic compound interest calculations if you don't agree. There are many other options: moonlighting, g…

Early withdrawal penalty is 20% now.

Not true

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc424.html

Distributions received before age 59½ are subject to an early distribution penalty of 10% additional tax unless an exception applies.

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#57
post #10
post #6

Absolutely not. You will have to pay taxes on withdrawals and a 10% early withdrawal penalty. Depending on the size of the withdrawal, this will immediately set you back 6-7 years of the 13 you contributed. If you have ~30 years to retire, even a small withdrawal will set you back by 10 years at retirement. Run some basic compound interest calculations if you don't agree. There are many other options: moonlighting, g…

> Run some basic compound interest calculations if you don't agree. Make sure to include basic compound inflation because the figures given here seem to be hyperbolic.

OK

100k principal, add 1k every month for 30 years. Compound at 7% --> 2M

50k principal, add 1k every month for 30 years. Compound at 7% --> 1.6M

Withdrawing 50k today costs you 400k in retirement

400k = 20% of 2M = 8 years of your 40 year career

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#58
post #31

First off, don't cash out your 401K for all of the reasons already mentioned (in your mind, it shouldn't even exist...that money is for future you). I started right away with putting money into retirement accounts(partly due to this book: http://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Wealth-Grads-Anyone-Starting... ). While it hurts a bit each month to put money away, in the end I know it'll be good for "Future Me". I currently ha…

> and the 3rd is my life insurance/savings account

I'm interested in learning more about life insurance. Did the book you recommend advise storing value in life insurance? Most resources I've studied suggest that any life insurance product other than "term" is not worthwhile, and that it's not worth getting until some stakeholder in your life depends on your lifetime earning potential.

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#59
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Run some basic compound interest calculations if you don't agree. Make sure to include basic compound inflation because the figures given here seem to be hyperbolic.

OK 100k principal, add 1k every month for 30 years. Compound at 7% --> 2M 50k principal, add 1k every month for 30 years. Compound at 7% --> 1.6M Withdrawing 50k today costs you 400k in retirement 400k = 20% of 2M = 8 years of your 40 year career

Yes, you've failed to consider the time value of money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_value_of_money

50k today is worth more than 50k in the future.

(Consistent compounding at 7% is extremely optimistic, even before considering inflation at 3%+).

Re: Ask HN: Should I cash out my 401K and try to get my dream job?

#60
The really big open source projects such as the Linux kernel or Hadoop generally are mostly done by paid developers. The interests of the companies and the interests of the developers generally align, and it works out well.

Smaller, personal open source projects may or may not help you get a job. To be honest, I've never been at a company where looking at Github pages was a big part of the hiring process. Maybe it's something recruiters look at? I don't really know. I have a bunch of stuff up on Github myself, but I don't know who looks at it, and I certainly don't rely on it to get me a job.

Similarly, I've never been at a place where the topic of answering questions on Stack Overflow came up. It's like contributing to Wikipedia-- something you do on your own time for the public good. Stack Overflow is a useful resource, but you also need to keep in mind that some of the answers there are kind of misleading or wrong.

Really, what any well-run company is going to try to figure out is whether you are a good fit at the company. If you have done some things in the areas they're interested in, that's going to be a positive. If it's just random stuff, then they are probably not going to have the time or inclination to look at it. I've done a lot of stuff that nobody has ever asked me about in a job interview. And that's ok.

If you are having trouble finding a job, the #1 reason is probably location. There just aren't a lot of jobs in some parts of the country, and most companies don't want remote workers unless they're rockstars. I wish I could give you an easy solution for this, but I really can't. You are probably going to have to choose between your career and your home town, like generations before you.

If you are somewhere in California, you can do open source work in your free time as long as it meets three criteria: 1. own time, 2. own equipment, 3. no use of employer trade secrets. It doesn't matter what they tell you... the worst they can do in California if they don't like your personal project is fire you. In other U.S. states (such as Washington), it's often pretty easy for them to claim your personal work as their own (a lot of employment contracts have this in it).

Post reply on HN