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Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

railsgirlssummerofcode.org

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Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#61

Post by wwwwwwwwww »

dingaling wrote: post #37
wwwwwwwwww wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful about what topics you make political jokes about. Don't forget that your rights end where my feelings begin, especially regarding social issues.

> Don't forget that your rights end where my feelings begin I think the quote is that "your rights end at the tip of my nose". No-one's rights should be infringed because someone is merely displeased or offended.

I'm not quoting anybody. My comment is a spin on the parent's comment on Mozilla.

The joke is that a foundation that claims to have "freedom of speech" as one of its core values is having its CEO step down because 5 years ago he expressed an opinion that hurts lots of peoples feelings.

Hence, "your rights end where my feelings begin"

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#62

Post by jfarmer »

facepalm wrote: post #59
nmrm wrote: post #23

This is addressed to the copious negative top-level comments. As someone with first-hand experience attending a computer summer camp, I think this is important. I attended a computer summer camp as a kid. It was all male and had an very awful culture (e.g. lunch conversations were pretty pubescent and gaming was really important). The culture seriously turned me off, to the point that I stopped programming entirely a…

Too bad we don't know anything about the culture of an all girls summercamp. I'm sure it would be all love and unicorns. Perhaps there can be different sorts of summer camps? Some boys might like gaming and actually go through puberty. Other boys might be into other things. Why shouldn't they all have a perfect summer camp? Likewise for girls...

Yes! Everyone should have the opportunity to learn in an environment where they feel empowered and understood. How does this project do anything except further the goal?

The GP's comment was not saying that an all-girls camp would be sunshine and unicorns. It was saying that one particular environment made them feel small and disempowered as a girl and that an experience like Girls Who Code would appeal to them for that reason.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#63

Post by facepalm »

jfarmer wrote: post #62
facepalm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad we don't know anything about the culture of an all girls summercamp. I'm sure it would be all love and unicorns. Perhaps there can be different sorts of summer camps? Some boys might like gaming and actually go through puberty. Other boys might be into other things. Why shouldn't they all have a perfect summer camp? Likewise for girls...

Yes! Everyone should have the opportunity to learn in an environment where they feel empowered and understood. How does this project do anything except further the goal? The GP's comment was not saying that an all-girls camp would be sunshine and unicorns. It was saying that one particular environment made them feel small and disempowered as a girl and that an experience like Girls Who Code would appeal to them for t…

But the unspoken claim is that all events with a lot of men are unbearable for women (and decent people).

Sure if some girl wants to go to girls only camp, whatever. Although it seems a bit unfair that the same wouldn't be granted for boys.

I'm waiting how this plays out in 10 years. Either it'll fail because a majority of women simply don't want to code. Or there will be women-only companies desperate to hire men. There would be a slight difference in the women only companies likely having started out as women only deliberately, so I think working as the only man for an all women company might be even more unattractive than the opposite thing.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#64

Post by ajlai »

parennoob wrote: post #7

As an Asian person who undergoes a ton of implicit and occasionally explicit racial discrimination (I have often been called out repeatedly for belonging to a specific nationality, and been the butt of numerous jokes regarding it), it is somewhat disheartening to see people who are higher than you on the social totem pole (e.g. highly-educated white females) often being the beneficiaries of programs such as these on…

I'm an Asian woman and I've definitely experienced more sexism than racism.

That said, if it bothers you that there aren't more "Asians in Tech" programs, why don't you start one? No one is stopping you, except maybe the people who would complain about it being unfair to THEIR underserved minority groups.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#65

Post by nmrm »

facepalm wrote: post #63
jfarmer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Everyone should have the opportunity to learn in an environment where they feel empowered and understood. How does this project do anything except further the goal? The GP's comment was not saying that an all-girls camp would be sunshine and unicorns. It was saying that one particular environment made them feel small and disempowered as a girl and that an experience like Girls Who Code would appeal to them for t…

But the unspoken claim is that all events with a lot of men are unbearable for women (and decent people). Sure if some girl wants to go to girls only camp, whatever. Although it seems a bit unfair that the same wouldn't be granted for boys. I'm waiting how this plays out in 10 years. Either it'll fail because a majority of women simply don't want to code. Or there will be women-only companies desperate to hire men. T…

The 20th century is replete with examples of women entering traditionally male professional roles. None of these industries is hostile toward men; in fact, often the opposite. The scenario you suggest as plausible is in fact quite unprecedented.

What makes Computer Science so different from all these other fields and professions?

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#66

Post by jfarmer »

facepalm wrote: post #63
jfarmer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Everyone should have the opportunity to learn in an environment where they feel empowered and understood. How does this project do anything except further the goal? The GP's comment was not saying that an all-girls camp would be sunshine and unicorns. It was saying that one particular environment made them feel small and disempowered as a girl and that an experience like Girls Who Code would appeal to them for t…

But the unspoken claim is that all events with a lot of men are unbearable for women (and decent people). Sure if some girl wants to go to girls only camp, whatever. Although it seems a bit unfair that the same wouldn't be granted for boys. I'm waiting how this plays out in 10 years. Either it'll fail because a majority of women simply don't want to code. Or there will be women-only companies desperate to hire men. T…

> But the unspoken claim is that all events with a lot of men are unbearable for women (and decent people).

How sensitive would you say you are to what women find bearable? How do you know?

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#67

Post by facepalm »

nmrm wrote: post #65
facepalm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the unspoken claim is that all events with a lot of men are unbearable for women (and decent people). Sure if some girl wants to go to girls only camp, whatever. Although it seems a bit unfair that the same wouldn't be granted for boys. I'm waiting how this plays out in 10 years. Either it'll fail because a majority of women simply don't want to code. Or there will be women-only companies desperate to hire men. T…

The 20th century is replete with examples of women entering traditionally male professional roles. None of these industries is hostile toward men; in fact, often the opposite. The scenario you suggest as plausible is in fact quite unprecedented. What makes Computer Science so different from all these other fields and professions?

I'd say most industries are as hostile to men as they are to women. Books about the sickness of organizations are plentiful.

I don't understand your question about "what is different about computer science".

I tell you what is different: you don't have to crawl in the mud for computer science, and there are a couple of overblown stories about IT billionaires having parties in fancy offices. There are fewer stories about cubicles in the cellar.

Edit: were you referring to the all-women IT company? They do exist now. And there are plenty of organizations organizing women only IT events for women. Like RailsGirls. So if they are successful, why wouldn't they lead to more women only IT companies?

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#68

Post by facepalm »

jfarmer wrote: post #66
facepalm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the unspoken claim is that all events with a lot of men are unbearable for women (and decent people). Sure if some girl wants to go to girls only camp, whatever. Although it seems a bit unfair that the same wouldn't be granted for boys. I'm waiting how this plays out in 10 years. Either it'll fail because a majority of women simply don't want to code. Or there will be women-only companies desperate to hire men. T…

> But the unspoken claim is that all events with a lot of men are unbearable for women (and decent people). How sensitive would you say you are to what women find bearable? How do you know?

What does it matter? Can you speak for all women? And for all men?

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#69

Post by nmrm »

facepalm wrote: post #67
nmrm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 20th century is replete with examples of women entering traditionally male professional roles. None of these industries is hostile toward men; in fact, often the opposite. The scenario you suggest as plausible is in fact quite unprecedented. What makes Computer Science so different from all these other fields and professions?

I'd say most industries are as hostile to men as they are to women. Books about the sickness of organizations are plentiful. I don't understand your question about "what is different about computer science". I tell you what is different: you don't have to crawl in the mud for computer science, and there are a couple of overblown stories about IT billionaires having parties in fancy offices. There are fewer stories ab…

> were you referring to the all-women IT company? They do exist now. And there are plenty of organizations organizing women only IT events for women.

I was referring the conclusion that these events/organizations significantly harm men.

> So if they are successful, why wouldn't they lead to more women only IT companies?

Because the whole of 20th century labor history, which is replete with counter-examples. Women supporting other women in male-dominated professions, as a matter of observable fact, does not generally lead to discrimination against men in the work place.

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