Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#1

Post by Xcelerate » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 12:55 AM UTC

Do physicists really believe in true randomness?
askamathematician.com

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#2

Post by j2kun » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:24 AM UTC

Isn't this just a question of whether they believe in quantum mechanics?

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#3

Post by pavpanchekha » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:33 AM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #2

Isn't this just a question of whether they believe in quantum mechanics?

Believing in quantum mechanics is much like believing in gravity or relativity—it is definitely a part of the universe we live in, and no mainstream physicists disagree on its correctness.

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#4

Post by pavpanchekha » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:33 AM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #2

Isn't this just a question of whether they believe in quantum mechanics?

Believing in quantum mechanics is much like believing in gravity or relativity—it is definitely a part of the universe we live in, and no mainstream physicists disagree on its correctness.

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#5

Post by pavpanchekha » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:33 AM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #2

Isn't this just a question of whether they believe in quantum mechanics?

Believing in quantum mechanics is much like believing in gravity or relativity—it is definitely a part of the universe we live in, and no mainstream physicists disagree on its correctness.

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#6

Post by viraptor » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:45 AM UTC

Thanks for posting something from this site. I've never heard of it before, but can't stop myself from checking out yet another article. Most of them are really well written.

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#7

Post by panic » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:45 AM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #2

Isn't this just a question of whether they believe in quantum mechanics?

It's not about "belief" -- you can perform the experiment described in the article and see for yourself.

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#8

Post by cwzwarich » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:52 AM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #2

Isn't this just a question of whether they believe in quantum mechanics?

There are deterministic interpretations of quantum mechanics, under which the usual randomness in quantum mechanics is not truly random.

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#9

Post by livingparadox » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 2:04 AM UTC

Can someone explain this a bit better? As far as I can tell, the argument is basically "these particle effects should be predictable. I can't predict them, therefore they're impossible to predict". That sounds like nonsense to me... And I don't understand the cos equation.

The argument seems to assume that the experiment is perfectly controlled, and given that we're still figuring out quantum effects, this seems to be in impossible task (Make sure no outside effects can change the experiment, without knowing all the outside effects). So, to me, all the experiment proves is we don't understand what's going on.

My belief: There is no such thing as true randomness or chaos. Only order we don't understand.

Re: Do physicists really believe in true randomness?

#10

Post by ngoldbaum » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 2:09 AM UTC

cwzwarich wrote: post #8

j2kun wrote: post #2

Isn't this just a question of whether they believe in quantum mechanics?

There are deterministic interpretations of quantum mechanics, under which the usual randomness in quantum mechanics is not truly random.

But Bell's inequality says that these hidden variable theories are incompatible with the results of experiments. Real experiments. Like these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments

It may be the case that there really is a hidden variable, but it would need to communicate it's value nonlocally, which I'd argue is stranger than the universe just being somewhat random.