Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

blog.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

751–760 of 1001 posts

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#751

Post by smsm42 »

wpietri wrote: post #740
gfodor wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support legalizing gay marriage. But two things, first, supporting prop 8 does not mean you "believe a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like others." It means you don't believe that the government should recognize same sex marriages as marriages. There are a large gradient of views here, and on one extreme are the bigots who hate homosexuals and on the other there are people who simply have…

Putting money behind Prop 8 helped strip a civil right from gay people. It's technically true that proves nothing about Eich's beliefs. Heck, maybe it was Eich's personal Opposite Day. But does it matter? Even the bible says, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning that it's reasonable to judge people by what they do. The pseudo-gotcha about tolerance is ridiculous, an accusation of hypocrisy based on a straw m…

>>> it's reasonable for gay employees and business partners to be concerned.

Unless Mozilla has entered into business of organizing gay weddings while I wasn't looking - no, it's not reasonable at all. No more than gun owner should be concerned if his CEO donated to a known anti-gun politician, or a medical marijuana user should be concerned if his business partner donated to a politician that opposes drug legalization. There was nothing in Eich's actions that would concern his employees and business partners in their capacity as employees and business partners. As far as it is known, he didn't say he would fire gay people (and he didn't do that either), he didn't say he would deny them benefits if affording such benefits were recognized by the law, he didn't refuse to enter any deals because opposing side was represented by gay person - in short, he did absolutely nothing of the sort that may raise such reasonable suspicion. The only base for that is "he's for prop 8, so he must be despicable person, so he's evil, so we have reasonable suspicion he would hate us because that's what evil people do". It's not an argument, it's a series of stretches, one worse than the other.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#752

Post by dragonwriter »

vacri wrote: post #738
spikels wrote: post #147

This is sad. I wish I lived in a world where your personal beliefs, even very unpopular ones, could be kept separate from your professional life. Unfortunately we seem to need to put people in a single box.

It means that there is now a precedent for anti-gay folks to argue against homosexuals being employed against the principles of the company, even when those principles are not the core product. "This hardware company espouses conservative Christian values - you can't work here because of your opinions". Separation of personal opinion and professional life goes beyond CxO staff.

> It means that there is now a precedent for anti-gay folks to argue against homosexuals being employed against the principles of the company, even when those principles are not the core product.

Actually, no, that precedent has existed for a long time -- in the form of fairly widespread and legal workplace discrimination against homosexuals -- which is one of the reasons that supporters of LGBT rights have sought to have sexual orientation enshrined in state and federal law as an explicitly prohibited basis for employment, housing, and other discrimination, as it is currently not in federal law in the US [1], or in the laws of many of the states (though it is in some states.)

[1] Although, in the sphere of employment, there are recent executive decisions at the federal level to treat orientation discrimination -- and other forms of gender stereotyping -- as sex discrimination, and thereby prohibited by laws that prohibit sex discrimination. But whether that interpretation will stand up in court remains to be seen.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#753

Post by zobzu »

mkr-hn wrote: post #279
andrewpi wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Barack Obama, the President of the US, was against gay marriage in 2008; I'm confused as to why he gets a pass here, but the head of Mozilla doesn't?

He didn't get a pass. A lot of people made a huge issue out of it from the day he announced to the day he changed his views. He also didn't stand in the way of the advancing equality movement while he mulled it over. Brendan Eich did, to the tune of $1000.

Obviously he's still president. So, yeah.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#754

Post by nsxwolf »

I fear this is a sign of things to come. Today it is CEOs, tomorrow it is someone lesser. Eventually it will reach the common worker.

Have an incorrect viewpoint on anything? Better keep quiet if you want to be able to take care of your family.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#755

Post by wpietri »

Spooky23 wrote: post #683
eropple wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he is being judged by his actions, because his actions suck. His actions like donating a grand to these jerks, like donating money to other jerks like Pat "our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally Hell-bent on Satanism and suicide" Buchanan. He has a history of badness and it's catching up to him. Though, honestly, the Pat Buchanan donation bothers me even more than the Prop 8 one; donating money to Pat Bucha…

Says you. I would rather work with and disagree with someone who has the integrity to stand by what they believe. I work in a group with folks of Indian decent from different religious backgrounds (Islamic, Hindu, Catholic), an Orthodox Jew, a bunch of Irish catholic types (including myself), and a person from Nigeria. We are literally from many corners of the earth, with different backgrounds, traditions, etc. If we…

I don't think anybody's contesting Eich's right to not get gay-married. And likewise, nobody's contesting his legal right to try to strip a civil right from gay people through California ballot propositions.

But I don't think one can to try to harm gay people and then expect to have no problem becoming the boss of a bunch of them. They have a right to express their opinions too.

I also think your live-and-let-live stance only works as long as others share the same view. Eich's donation is just the opposite of what you advocate: he refused to live and let live. Would you still be calling for tolerance if Eich were working against interracial marriage, or against letting black people vote, or working to have the Catholic church made illegal in America? I'm guessing not.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#756

Post by stefantalpalaru »

Borogove wrote: post #670
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is irrational to associate a homophobic hate crime with a donation to gay marriage opponents. But that's OK. As long as you can raise a fuss about it you can completely ignore reason and pressure people into resigning.

I was comparing Shepard's murder to the persecution of Eich.

That's not only wrong, it's also stupid.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#757

Post by wpietri »

ceejayoz wrote: post #127
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

So... Bullying: tweeting/emailing/blogging an opinion on Mozilla's decisions Not bullying: taking significant monetary action to push for discrimination against 5-10% of the country

Yep! Paying to help keep family members apart and put children at risk is a reasonable political action, one everybody should be a-ok with.

Saying that you don't like that? Shocking oppression of an innocent man.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#758

Post by adl »

return0 wrote: post #703
ubernostrum wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proposition 8 was not a campaign to change the political views of people. It had but one purpose, and that purpose was to declare a subset of the population legally unequal to everyone else.

Everything is political, unless you presume that laws come from nature or from god. If we 're all defacto equal vs marriage, then i could marry my 6-year old cousin.

Is your 6-year old cousin a consenting adult?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#759

Post by smsm42 »

bronson wrote: post #750
smsm42 wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? The project can also employ gun-owning people, marijuana-smoking people, birth-control-using people, healthcare-using people, etc. Those issues are hot issues because they interest a lot of people, and since big project employs a lot of people, it is inevitable that the intersection between people affected by the issue of the day and people working at big company is significant. And among them inevitably wou…

Um, the project would not give gun or marijuana benefits to its employees. Yes, government-sponsored birth control is a hot issue and many CEOs are having a hard time reconciling it. And, yes some people have quit over it. So, yes, it's similar. Being pro-diversity does not mean being morally obligated to accept racism or hate-induced views. That's pretzel logic.

The project also doesn't give gay marriage benefits, so what's the difference? If the gay marriage ever is recognized by California or on federal level, the benefits would be automatically equalized. I'm not sure if it's possible to do that before the law is set in this regard (may be some accounting/tax issues with just giving benefits to people that the law considers strangers).

>>> Being pro-diversity does not mean being morally obligated to accept racism or hate-induced views

It does not mean that, of course. But it also does not mean you should try to ruin the life of everybody who disagrees with you.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#760

Post by stefantalpalaru »

username223 wrote: post #737
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other side of the argument is: people should not be sacked because of their political opinions, even if I don't agree with them. I find this a rational and sustainable position. No one should be afraid of losing their job for voicing their opinion in a public debate. No one.

> No one should be afraid of losing their job for voicing their opinion in a public debate. No one. Really? I guess there's no inherent problem with a homophobe or white supremacist coder, as long as he does his job and doesn't cause trouble at work. But a manager, who hires and fires, or a CEO, who is the public face of the company? It seems "rational and sustainable" to hold them to higher standards.

Is one of those higher standards political compliance with what's hip in the Valley right now? What about voting for a certain president?

You know what? Let's amend the right to free speech so it excludes Mozilla CEOs, just to be on the safe side. Oh, and the next CEO better be a peruvian-aleutian lesbian just to show that the company doesn't discriminate (any more).

Post reply on HN