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European Parliament passes net neutrality law

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Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#141

Post by voicereasonish »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #122
voicereasonish wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entir…

I did not suggest that actually, but I do believe the EU has contributed towards cementing peace in Europe. Certainly the EU made prosperity easier by removing the need for borders. If you think the EU is too bureaucratic and wasteful, you might be right. But just consider the alternative, if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations. You would have to negoti…

> "if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations."

I don't... I don't see any upside to increased centralisation and globalisation.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#142

Post by _asciiker_ »

Why do I get the feeling that most of these comments are basically pointing out faults in EU instead of the news itself which is of great relevancy to all of us.

I understand the audience here is mostly American but shouldn't we really by cheering this achievement and try to convince US senators to follow the lead?

US is the one who is behind right now. Neutrally speaking.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#143

Post by wooter »

voicereasonish wrote: post #138
mverwijs wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate how United the United States really is, compared to the EU. London is a 4 hour drive from Brussels. Washington D.C. is a 41 hour drive from Seattle. And you can't even drive from D.C. to Hawaii. When looking real hard at culture, I'm sure we can find as many differences between people from NY,NY and say Fairbanks, Alaska as we could between Londoners and Berliners. I'm not against your argume…

The US is all on the same land mass (mostly). They all speak the same language. They've all lived there pretty much the same amount of time. With Europe, the UK is a different landmass, we all speak different languages, and we have centuries of complex history and culture. Sure, the US varies quite a bit, but nothing like the amount that europe varies.

Not to mention, States (as opposed to Federal) Rights is a big deal in the US because we find your exact concerns to be crucial to efficient government.

I'm glad to see a European that the idea of local government isn't completely lost upon.

Its also strange to see such a pro-centralization crowd on HN given that the causation relationship between diversity/decentralization and robustness of a complex network is well documented.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#144

Post by mkingston »

arethuza wrote: post #111
oneandoneis2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's as maybe, but we hate the French more than Denmark &Sweden hate each other! :P

Except the Scots traditionally don't hate the French ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance

Could this then be why the English hate the Scots?

In fact, do the English like anyone at all..?

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#145

Post by chad_oliver »

mattmanser wrote: post #65
robin_reala wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which developed nations have gone to war with each other since WW2? Argentina / UK for one. And the Balkan conflicts for two.

The Balkans was a Yugoslavia civil war at its heart. I give you the Argentina/UK one, but that seriously almost didn't happen. And is really one of the last, thorny, vestiges of colonialism, like Israel.

WW1 was an Austro-hungarian civil war at its heart. It spiraled out of control because we didn't have the system we have today.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#146

Post by chad_oliver »

yxhuvud wrote: post #139
M2Ys4U wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous. You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO. >From regulations on fruit Ugh. I wish people wou…

> You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. I suggest you go read up on WWI.

To be fair, trade between European countries has increased by orders of magnitude since WW1, and that remains true even after you account for general economic growth.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#147

Post by M2Ys4U »

voicereasonish wrote: post #91
M2Ys4U wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous. You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO. >From regulations on fruit Ugh. I wish people wou…

> You may be waiting a lot longer than you think. No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say in who is creating our laws. There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. The public will demand we govern ourselves rather tha…

>There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point.

Current opinion polls would beg to differ. Labour is polling first and UKIP and the Conservatives are vying for 2nd place.

And as for a referendum, ~43% want to remain in the EU with ~36% wanting to leave.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#148

Post by madaxe_again »

PeterisP wrote: post #135
madaxe_again wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's literally been no reason to fight. But how does that differ to WWII? Sure, reparations, polish corridor (not a reason at all), rise of fascism - but those things happened in a Europe that had sworn it would never fight again at Versailles. LN failed impressively because it was oriented around arms control and security pacts, rather than trade agreements - it attempted to treat the symptoms, not the cause. N…

The 'reason to fight' is the whole difference. In 1930ies, there were all kinds of practical reasons for European nations to win wars of conquest against their neighbours - that would bring them immediate practical and economic benefits, which would offset the costs of that military action unless it escalated to a world war. Especially after Versailles, there were many reasons to fight in Europe. In 2000, however, th…

And you don't think that trade has anything to do with that? Just mysterious external factors?

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#149

Post by NicoJuicy »

mcv wrote: post #114
shdon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the whole, I think she does good work. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she genuinely thought the text as proposed would sufficiently protect net neutrality or at least underestimated the holes it left. But even if she didn't, it is good to see that parliament did its job and corrected the mistakes made by the legislators.

She's the only Eurocommissioner that I constantly see fighting for all sorts of good causes. The others barely register or seem to be a net negative. I like Kroes a lot, but every once in a while, she suddenly supports something that seems quite the opposite of her usual position. Weirdly out of character. And I often find myself wondering if maybe there's something else at play in the background.

That's exactly the same thing as i thought...

And the opposite of net neutrality is a really big deal. She had contacts with telecom though for roaming, perhaps she had to change position in favor of net neutrality in return of dropping roaming costs in Europe?

(just thinking out loud)

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#150

Post by arethuza »

mkingston wrote: post #144
arethuza wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the Scots traditionally don't hate the French ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance

Could this then be why the English hate the Scots? In fact, do the English like anyone at all..?

The English do not hate the Scots - and if you look at the number of English people who have houses and holiday in France they don't really hate France either....
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