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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#631

Post by DatBear »

dopamean wrote: post #131
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

I keep hearing people saying that gay marriage is more than just a political view, but so is every other political view.

Don't support welfare? You're against poor people. Support welfare? You're against the working man. You're pro-choice? You're against babies. You're pro-life? You're against women.

Pretty much every political stance can be viewed in the same fashion as people are viewing Eich's. The thing is, Eich has been at the company for 15 years; if he wanted to discriminate against gay people in the workplace, it could have been done already - he's a co-founder, don't you think he had some input towards the policies in place? And if it has been done already, I haven't heard of it, but I would fully support trying to get him to step down. The thing is, it probably hasn't been done, which would mean he has done nothing wrong in my opinion.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#632

Post by kirkbackus »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #484
kirkbackus wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the word "homophobia" is that it tells us almost nothing about a person. Not only does it include people who have negative attitudes toward the people, it also includes people who have a negative attitude towards homosexuality. There is a major difference here: a person and lifestyle are NOT the same thing. Someone who does not like homosexuality can have a positive attitude toward homosexuals. The W…

By "negative attitude towards homosexuality" are you talking specifically about the sexual act? Because, if so, I don't see anyone arguing that heterosexual couples who engage in anal sex should not be allowed to marry.

This is a red herring for I was not talking specifically. My main point was "a person and lifestyle are NOT the same thing" regarding the negative attitudes in the wikipedia definition of "homophobia".

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#633

Post by mef »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #411
ionforce wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you expect one side of the argument to adhere to reason when the other side clearly has none? What is the "reason" behind being against marriage equality?

The other side of the argument is: people should not be sacked because of their political opinions, even if I don't agree with them. I find this a rational and sustainable position. No one should be afraid of losing their job for voicing their opinion in a public debate. No one.

He wasn't sacked, he stepped down.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#634

Post by weixiyen »

codinghorror wrote: post #35
phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

I agree with this. His last interview was just embarrassingly bad, no kind of leadership at all. Leadership is taking responsibility and owning your actions, not hand waving and vaguely pushing away.

From what I've seen, he has demonstrated a few of the traits of a Level 5 leader (from the book Good to Great). Very humble, puts others before himself, has integrity. The fact that he's not a skilled interviewer and terrible at politics is a plus, not a negative.

CEOs with integrity in the face of public persecution are very rare.

The next guy to replace him could be someone that will sink the Mozilla ship.

> Leadership is taking responsibility and owning your actions.

You are implying that it is a fact that his actions are wrong, when it's simply an opinion.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#636

Post by bzbarsky »

HillRat wrote: post #318
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

> It's obvious that a significant number of board members weren't happy

I'm aware of one board member that's true for. Note that the Wall Street Journal blog post that everyone has been quoting on the board member issue pretty much just got the story wrong. Two of the board members had been meaning to move on to other things for a while and just stuck it out to the end of the CEO search, since that's one of the board's key functions.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#637

Post by mef »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #558
mef wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did not apologize for his behaviour, he expressed his "sorrow at having caused pain." Quite different.

It's really not, but people choose to see it that way.

An apology is acknowledgement of wrongdoing. He did not acknowledge wrongdoing, he acknowledged that he hurt people but did not admit to any wrongdoing.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#638

Post by gdwatson »

blueveek wrote: post #241
Spooky23 wrote: post #34

So Mozilla supports diversity and freedom on many vectors -- as long as they are the correct positions. Certainly not a very courageous stance.

Brendan chose to leave, because it was hurting Mozilla. This is not a "corporate decision".

It's hard to say whether or not that's true. Such resignations are asked for at least as often as they are volunteered.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#639

Post by jrs235 »

Crito wrote: post #252
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Nobodies' right to have different viewpoints is being taken away. Nobodies' right to donate to political causes is being taken away. The only people in this entire story that were/are trying to take away the rights of others were the people who pushed for Prop 8. The right to support legislation like Prop 8 remains intact. The right to not be criticized by others for doing so has never existed in the first place. The…

Would everyone please use "privilege" and not "right"? The legal benefits of a government recognized marriage are privileges, not rights. Government can grant privileges not rights.

I understand the demand for equal treatment doesn't change though.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#640

Post by bzbarsky »

jbooth wrote: post #406
HillRat wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

To piggyback, there's an additional difference between being a public-facing CEO of, say, McDonald's, Exxon or Apple, and being the public-facing CEO of a non-profit which exists due to the donations of primarily liberal and libertarian internet people. The prior case might cost them a little revenue due to boycotts but if the person's effective, you can make a case for 'private views' and 'shareholder value'. When y…

On the topic of being an "activist platform", I strongly suggest you read " rel="nofollow">http://incisive.nu/2014/thinking-about-mozilla/>, and in particular the paragraph starting "Several of my colleagues have called for Brendan’s resignation. I have not done so ..."
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