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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#351

Post by peteretep »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #238
pessimizer wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. There's no evidence of this either way, and the qualifications for being a CEO are nearly orthogonal to the qualifications for being a developer. He's clearly an outstanding developer; though javascript seems the product of a damaged mind, it's the water we all swim in. As a CEO, he chooses the direction of the company and manages…

What evidence is there that he's a "homophobe"? 7 million other Californians also voted for Prop 8. Does that make them all homophobes?

    > Does that make them all homophobes?
What's your alternative explanation?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#352

Post by jackmaney »

nostrademons wrote: post #199
danpalmer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Eich has the right to make whatever donations he wants. He also has the right to hold whatever beliefs he wants. What he doesn't have is the freedom from consequences of performing those actions and holding those beliefs.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#353

Post by anaphor »

broflosup wrote: post #201
adrianlmm wrote: post #70

Well, I won't use Firefox anymore and I won't use anything related to Mozilla, I can't tolerate this injustice.

I'm kind of conflicted. On one hand, there's Chrome, but it's used by Google to help US government spy on you. On another hand, there's Mozilla. Both good browsers but are being developed by pretty evil people.

Code, especially of the FLOSS kind, is not really 'evil'. I mean I guess you could write a free system for censoring or something, but it's not like a closed version wouldn't pop up in its place and be just as hard to circumvent. Anyway have you looked at GNU IceCat? It's a fork of Firefox that doesn't recommend any non-free addons and has some other privacy features baked in.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#354

Post by Gormo »

dasil003 wrote: post #150
akerl_ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have considered him a worse person if he'd done that. I disagree with his opinions on marriage, but he has the right to have those opinions, and to provide support for causes he believes in. I'm not shocked the he is stepping down, or that others in the organization appear to have applied substantial pressure on him to do so, but it makes me sad. Their statements about supporting freedom of speech are hollow:…

> the community has pressured him to step down because he expressed an opinion not held by the majority. That's not true. The fact that the majority believe the idea was necessary for the pressure to be applied, but it is not why the pressure was applied. The pressure was applied because his views trample on others' rights, and equal rights is philosophically closely tied with the entire mission of an organization li…

> his views trample on others' rights

No; I don't agree with Eich's views, but merely having those views does not implicate anyone else's rights in any way at all. Rights are violated by actions, not merely by expressing distasteful opinions.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#355

Post by emhart »

jcromartie wrote: post #328
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

You could also say that it was pretty much unacceptable to support women's suffrage or be against slavery in certain times and places. But, the thing is, these ideas have trajectories. The idea that slavery is wrong or women should have the right to vote never got less accepted over time.

I couldn't figure out how to efficiently say exactly what you just wrote. Nicely put!

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#356

Post by g8oz »

In Communist times organizations used to have a commissar figure that monitored people for "incorrect" political opinions. He/she exercised power over people for reasons that had nothing to do with the organization's business.

These days apparently the Internet will allow anyone to fill that role.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#357

Post by cousin_it »

Aloisius wrote: post #295
cousin_it wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, freedom of speech means exactly that people shouldn't be punished for speech. What else could it possibly mean?

No, it means freedom from state censorship and state punishment (imprisonment for instance). The public can punish you all they want.

Well, that's a bug in freedom of speech then. Other freedoms don't work like that. They protect you from all actors, not just the state. For example, your employer can't fire you for being gay. They shouldn't be able to fire you for your political views either.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#358

Post by baddox »

blueveek wrote: post #41
phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

"All he had to do was lie". Are you suggesting this would've been better, in the grand scheme of things?

I certainly think so, at least for Mozilla. Perhaps his close family and friends would be upset with him for lying about his views, but if he estimated that they would be okay with it, I don't see what the problem would be.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#359

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #287
blueveek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All he had to do was lie". Are you suggesting this would've been better, in the grand scheme of things?

This is the culture we've created for ourselves. The only people who can be in a position of power or publicity must be sanitized to the extreme. Hold a view that isn't mainstream and you will be eviscerated by a mob that has hijacked the media. I guarantee that no one has a completely "right" set of views that won't anger some faction of the population enough to create a mob response. Of course, we still need politi…

"sanitized to the extreme"

"Hold a view that isn't mainstream"

We're not talking about slightly controversial views, 'colorful' language, or a 'racy' past here, we're talking about out-and-out homophobia, wanting people to be treated as lesser humans simply because of who they love. Please, that is a LONG way from being 'sanitized to the extreme'.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#360

Post by icebraining »

mkr-hn wrote: post #232
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, though, his opinion was supported by the majority in that California election: 7 million to 6.4 million in favor of Prop 8. I guess if they consider any other candidates for CEO from California, they'll have to ask them how they voted.

How can it be a right if it's subject to a majority vote?

All rights are subject to majority vote. Or subject to the majority, anyway.
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