Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#211

Post by andrewpi » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:38 PM UTC

dopamean wrote: post #131

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

So Barack Obama, the President of the US, was against gay marriage in 2008; I'm confused as to why he gets a pass here, but the head of Mozilla doesn't?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#212

Post by dnr » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:38 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

One person losing his job, compared to millions of people not being able to marry the person they love? Even if you figure that $1000 as a fraction of the money raised by the campaign, you're still talking about significant emotional harm to hundreds or thousands of people directly affected within CA.

But the effects are actually much greater, because the CA decision was not made in a vacuum: it affected public sentiment all over the country, and the world. Delays in full marriage equality in CA mean delays in general societal acceptance of gay people, which means more bullying of LGBT children and teenagers, more suicides, more people getting disowned by their families.

Equating the harm done to him to even a fraction of the direct and follow-on effects of the prop 8 campaign seems almost offensive, to me.

[Edit: Even so, I think the reaction was a little over the top and this outcome was unfortunate. However, I don't feel bad for him.]

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#213

Post by jroseattle » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:38 PM UTC

Beliavsky wrote: post #15

From the article: "We have employees with a wide diversity of views. Our culture of openness extends to encouraging staff and community to share their beliefs and opinions in public." Clearly people with socially conservative views are not welcome at Mozilla.

> people with socially conservative views

The fallacy of this statement is that it conflates a citizen's unilateral restriction of freedom on another citizen as a "view".

Don't fall for the argument due to soft labeling of what amounts to anything but equality.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#214

Post by yawboakye » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:38 PM UTC

Really sad about and disappointed in the way the whole internet reacted to Mozilla choice of CEO. To the homophobic it's wrong to be gay and to the gay it's wrong to be homophobic. If we accept LGBTQ as a circuitry of the mind, why don't we treat homophobia the same? And if it's ok to publicly admit to being gay why isn't it the same for homophobic? Where's the tolerance of political views?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#215

Post by dasil003 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:39 PM UTC

amaral-herberth wrote: post #100

ChrisLTD wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As were gay people in California.

So one error justifies another?

Are you kidding me? He lost a job because of having bigoted views and financially supporting legislation which disenfranchises an entire class of people. He will never suffer 1/10th of what the average gay person goes through in a lifetime. Comparing the consequences of his personal actions to the systematic discrimination against the entire gay community is laughable. You might as well say I'm just as bad as Charles Manson because I once swatted a fly.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#216

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:39 PM UTC

devindotcom wrote: post #76

Beliavsky wrote: post #15

From the article: "We have employees with a wide diversity of views. Our culture of openness extends to encouraging staff and community to share their beliefs and opinions in public." Clearly people with socially conservative views are not welcome at Mozilla.

You know what, maybe they're not. Having a philosophy of progressivism is a valid policy, and as long as you're not denying someone a job specifically because of their race, creed, party, skin color, disability, etc, it's fine. In this case, the man appears to be an unrepentant bigot whose ideas are not in line with much of the company.

[deleted]

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#217

Post by lcfg » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:39 PM UTC

_t5yy wrote: post #139

agapos wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values." Care to elaborate this? Last time I read, the Mozilla Manifeto[1] says nothing about marriage rights or anything marginally related. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

Exactly. Mozilla is about at the end of the day "openness" unfortunately for some people at mozilla, that means working with people who's views you might not be comfortable with. This is the whole point of working in and pushing for an open society.

This isn't what "open society" means. In your view, what would we do with people that discriminate based on gender, or skin colour? We cannot tolerate this. Any society must strive to ensure equal rights to its members.

Edit: we're not going to have this debate for every minority group. This equal rights thing is happening, whether you like it or not.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#218

Post by SimHacker » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:39 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #60

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

It speaks to his integrity as a hateful bigot that he didn't have the human decency to change his beliefs based on the fact that he was completely incapable of coming up with a valid justification for them, and refused to justify himself or apologize for what he did. And no, his non-apology apology was not an apology.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#219

Post by chc » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:39 PM UTC

Borogove wrote: post #115

rossjudson wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claiming there's no longer any freedom of speech is rather foolish. This is about proportionality of response. When is it OK to take direct, personal, and extreme action against an individual? Did Eich's conduct rise to that level?

What extreme action was taken?

People tried to ruin his career? Did you not see the OP?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#220

Post by danudey » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:39 PM UTC

agapos wrote: post #104

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

"On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values." Care to elaborate this? Last time I read, the Mozilla Manifeto[1] says nothing about marriage rights or anything marginally related. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

The Mozilla Manifesto should not be taken to be the total sum of what Mozilla, as an organization, believes. Their Manifesto is about how they believe the internet should behave and be treated, not how the company itself should behave and act with regards to its own employees.