Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#181

Post by danudey » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

radicalbyte wrote: post #87

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

> All he had to do was lie I may be diametrically opposed to Brendan's views, but he has earned my respect by being honest and sticking to his values.

Meh. Sticking to your values of exclusion and divisiveness isn't really something I can respect someone for. 'Good for you for continuing to believe that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, even though it doesn't hurt you in any way if they do.'

Preventing gay people from getting married really just seems like spite, like 'I don't like you so you can't have this'. I can't respect someone like that.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#182

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

kylemaxwell wrote: post #91

_t5yy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"any opinion is ok, as long as you're not conservative" I used to get this constantly in HS and now in college. This type of thinking is extremely toxic and I think can be very damaging for an institutions reputation. Mozilla is no longer about "openness" it's now about a much more generic liberal world view.

Bullshit. Any opinion is okay but if you are actively working to remove existing rights from other people, you can expect opprobrium. This applies especially when leading an organization with values like Mozilla's.

>but if you are actively working to remove existing rights from other people

How is opposing redefining marriage (in the context of law) working to remove existing rights of people? Its framed in terms of removing rights/civil rights because it suits the cause. But this characterization is not supported by a dispassionate reading of the issue here.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#183

Post by blisterpeanuts » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

akerl_ wrote: post #81

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

I would have considered him a worse person if he'd done that. I disagree with his opinions on marriage, but he has the right to have those opinions, and to provide support for causes he believes in. I'm not shocked the he is stepping down, or that others in the organization appear to have applied substantial pressure on him to do so, but it makes me sad. Their statements about supporting freedom of speech are hollow:…

Ironically, though, his opinion was supported by the majority in that California election: 7 million to 6.4 million in favor of Prop 8.

I guess if they consider any other candidates for CEO from California, they'll have to ask them how they voted.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#184

Post by adamwong246 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

daveqr wrote: post #79

IanDrake wrote: post #42

To me this is a win for freedom of speech and free markets. You're free to express your close minded opinion, but the market is free to reject it and you.

This was the opposite of a win for freedom of speech.

"Freedom of Speech" does not mean "Freedom from the Consequences of your Speech."

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#185

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #111

nostrademons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

That argument means that, back in the days when homosexuality was culturally wrong, anyone who thought that it was OK should have changed their view to match the culture.

That is, your idea that social consensus determines right and wrong is really dangerous. We have historical examples where it proved to be a terrible guide to morality.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#186

Post by arrrg » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

Touche wrote: post #95

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who persecuted Eich? His detractors were merely engaging in their freedom of speech. You know, free market and all that.

It's about being a gracious victor. Yes, Eich was on the wrong side of history when he supported prop 8 those years ago. Yes, those who support gay marriage are "right" and history will show this. But the graceful thing to do when you're right is not to curb-stomp those who were wrong. It's not to rub it in their face. It's not to ruin their lives because they made a mistake. The graceful thing to do when you are rig…

Curb stomp? Rub it in their face? What are you talking about?

Eich never said that he was wrong. That’s his prerogative – he can have that opinion – but I’m not sure why anyone would forgive someone who isn’t even asking for forgiveness.

I’m really all for forgiving mistakes and being graceful. There is no reason to rub someone’s past mistakes in their face when they already admitted to making a mistake. Humans screw up, even CEOs. I think in general we need to be more forgiving.

But Eich never asked for forgiveness, so that’s really a moot point with him.

Of course, harassment is not ok, but I really can’t see a problem (and also no internet mob) in voicing your opinion (even strongly worded) and calling for a boycott.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#187

Post by mkr-hn » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

It's sad that people calling for his head screamed louder than people asking politely for clarification. I just wanted to know why a company that says it's pro-equality hired as CEO someone who donated to an anti-equality campaign.

The action was inconsistent with the claim. A lot of people changed their minds in the years after 2008, so I was ready to believe he changed his.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#188

Post by wyclif » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:34 PM UTC

sethbannon wrote: post #57

Comments here are pretty supportive of Brendan but I see this as nothing but a victory for Mozilla and a victory for consumer activism. It should be clear by now that you cannot run a large company in the public eye while you espouse vitriolic and discriminatory views that belong in the last century.

Except that he didn't "espouse vitriolic and discrimatory views." A majority of voters in CA pulled the lever for Prop 8. 70% of African-American voters in CA voted "yes" for Prop 8. Doesn't sound discriminatory to me. What it sounds like is political correctness run amok, and punishment for thought crime.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#189

Post by tbranyen » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:35 PM UTC

This disappoints me, because I wanted to see Brendan overcome this by apologizing, sympathizing, and connecting. From my point of view it seemed like Mozilla had a train wreck of a PR nightmare and for reasons I cannot understand decided to throw in the towel and give up. What was learned? What trust was gained?

This was a chance for tackling a large issue in a meaningful way and for whatever reason he didn't try.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#190

Post by waterfowl » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:35 PM UTC

As a gay man this makes me sad.

Eich gave a relatively small amount of money to a cause that happened to be supported by a majority of voters at the time(disclosure: I am gay, I don't care). For the first ~200 years of America NO ONE supported gay marriage beyond fringe gay groups. 20 years ago a celebrated sitting Democratic president signed DOMA. It was a long time ago and not a lot of money and Eich's (edit: technical)contributions outweigh his political opinions. "Not supporting marriage equality" should not be an "unacceptable" opinion. Why can't we respect people's opinions? How is this any different from railroading a staunch Catholic or Mormon or Muslim out of an organization(because if you say "god told me to feel this way" it turns into a protected class). I'd be delighted to work with him, because I don't tend to work with people on software projects with their political views in mind. It just bums me out when people capitulate to angry mobs, in either direction(just last week an organization capitulated to an anti gay agenda...World Vision, and that made me sad too).

Edit again: Why don't all you folks put your money where your mouth is and refactor all of your JS code to dart or something, just so you don't have to be tainted by evil Eich.