Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014 • Hacker News Board

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#21

Post by steveklabnik » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:26 PM UTC

rollo wrote: post #8

Sounds like it was great last year, so it's absolutely worth it. Such events are definitely needed.

They're not just needed, they're _massively_ successful. While I have some small issue with some of the branding, it gets people to show up.

I know someone who tried to get a 'new people programming' event started for six months, never got more than 4 or 5 people, and they were all men, even though he was trying to be woman-friendly. He then changed to make it a RailsGirls event, and he had 300 people apply for the 15 seats he was budgeting for...

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#22

Post by colmvp » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

TheFullStack wrote: post #17

parennoob wrote: post #7

As an Asian person who undergoes a ton of implicit and occasionally explicit racial discrimination (I have often been called out repeatedly for belonging to a specific nationality, and been the butt of numerous jokes regarding it), it is somewhat disheartening to see people who are higher than you on the social totem pole (e.g. highly-educated white females) often being the beneficiaries of programs such as these on…

I'm also an Asian male and you're right about the implicit (and sometimes explicit) discrimination we deal with. I was at a party last summer and someone called me a "Jap" but was "just kidding." White people don't deal with this. However, I also benefit from being an Asian male software developer. Whenever I meet new people in business, I am automatically assumed to be smart which has proven highly profitable. Findi…

Strange, I feel like I have to prove myself more because I'm an Asian man. Western society doesn't look fondly on Asian men's looks and so literally the only thing I have going for me are my accomplishments and skills.

Yes, some people might think I'm more intelligent based on my race. On the other hand, some people may think I'm not qualified for leadership or public facing positions because of male Asian stereotypes.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#23

Post by nmrm » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:28 PM UTC

This is addressed to the copious negative top-level comments.

As someone with first-hand experience attending a computer summer camp, I think this is important.

I attended a computer summer camp as a kid. It was all male and had an very awful culture (e.g. lunch conversations were pretty pubescent and gaming was really important). The culture seriously turned me off, to the point that I stopped programming entirely and got into math for a while afterwards. Oh, and I'm male...

If a girl joined any random summer camp 12 years ago, she would be the only girl in the group. This may have changed since then, but I'm sure not by much.

Sense of belonging and community is important, and it's not unreasonable to suspect that a male-dominated summer camp would not provide a girl with that sense of community. Especially at that age.

A more ideal solution might be increasing the number of girls interested in computer science so that this simply is not a problem. Unfortunately, it's unrealistic to assume that will happen over night. In the mean time, camps such as this might decrease the social barriers to entry for girls interested in CS. That's a Good Thing.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#24

Post by TheFullStack » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:29 PM UTC

monkeynotes wrote: post #20

TheFullStack wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also an Asian male and you're right about the implicit (and sometimes explicit) discrimination we deal with. I was at a party last summer and someone called me a "Jap" but was "just kidding." White people don't deal with this. However, I also benefit from being an Asian male software developer. Whenever I meet new people in business, I am automatically assumed to be smart which has proven highly profitable. Findi…

> White people don't deal with this. I am white. I get called 'brit' or 'pom' or 'white guy' and so on all the time by colleagues of various ethnic or cultural backgrounds. I take it as friendly jibing unless I can see there is clear intention to upset.

Monkeynotes, don't take this the wrong way but you will never understand what it's like to be called a derogatory term as minority in a society that constantly denigrates your background. It's just not the same. It just isn't.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#25

Post by adamdavis » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

TheFullStack wrote: post #24

monkeynotes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> White people don't deal with this. I am white. I get called 'brit' or 'pom' or 'white guy' and so on all the time by colleagues of various ethnic or cultural backgrounds. I take it as friendly jibing unless I can see there is clear intention to upset.

Monkeynotes, don't take this the wrong way but you will never understand what it's like to be called a derogatory term as minority in a society that constantly denigrates your background. It's just not the same. It just isn't.

I think you're very sadly mistaken - white people can be victims of racism, too, you dig? I grew up and went through a school system where white people were by far the minority, and yes, I had to deal with racism.

edit: Downvotes? Yikes. Like most people, I'd prefer some constructive replies instead of silent detractors, but it is what it is.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#26

Post by lomegor » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

parennoob wrote: post #7

As an Asian person who undergoes a ton of implicit and occasionally explicit racial discrimination (I have often been called out repeatedly for belonging to a specific nationality, and been the butt of numerous jokes regarding it), it is somewhat disheartening to see people who are higher than you on the social totem pole (e.g. highly-educated white females) often being the beneficiaries of programs such as these on…

Why do you feel the need to say that Asian people are more at a disadvantaged that women? Can't we agree that both are at a disadvantage and we should help them? Your statement is highly subjective and really difficult to prove. You are also implying that we should help women less and Asian people more. Don't be like that. There's absolutely no need to try to empower one group while lowering another one.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#27

Post by TheFullStack » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

colmvp wrote: post #22

TheFullStack wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also an Asian male and you're right about the implicit (and sometimes explicit) discrimination we deal with. I was at a party last summer and someone called me a "Jap" but was "just kidding." White people don't deal with this. However, I also benefit from being an Asian male software developer. Whenever I meet new people in business, I am automatically assumed to be smart which has proven highly profitable. Findi…

Strange, I feel like I have to prove myself more because I'm an Asian man. Western society doesn't look fondly on Asian men's looks and so literally the only thing I have going for me are my accomplishments and skills. Yes, some people might think I'm more intelligent based on my race. On the other hand, some people may think I'm not qualified for leadership or public facing positions because of male Asian stereotype…

True. I acknowledge that. The deal comes with both the good and the bad. That's all I'm saying - don't forget the good. For me, at least, it's quite good. It's almost shameful how much I get paid by the hour to write code while watching the Mets play (supposedly) professional baseball on TV.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#28

Post by level » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

nmrm wrote: post #23

This is addressed to the copious negative top-level comments. As someone with first-hand experience attending a computer summer camp, I think this is important. I attended a computer summer camp as a kid. It was all male and had an very awful culture (e.g. lunch conversations were pretty pubescent and gaming was really important). The culture seriously turned me off, to the point that I stopped programming entirely a…

I absolutely agree with this. I talked with a major contributor to http://www.blackgirlscode.com/ and he helped me understand that it's not about keeping men back or fighting sexism with sexism, it's about providing opportunities where people thought they previously didn't exist. STEM and the computer industry are heavily dominated by men (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7523172), and the role models to introduce women into these fields just aren't there (although it is getting better).

Programs like this are there to show that an industry isn't specifically for only men or women, and allow girls to make the choice to code, even if they previously hadn't thought of it as an option.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#29

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

TheFullStack wrote: post #24

monkeynotes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> White people don't deal with this. I am white. I get called 'brit' or 'pom' or 'white guy' and so on all the time by colleagues of various ethnic or cultural backgrounds. I take it as friendly jibing unless I can see there is clear intention to upset.

Monkeynotes, don't take this the wrong way but you will never understand what it's like to be called a derogatory term as minority in a society that constantly denigrates your background. It's just not the same. It just isn't.

[deleted]

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#30

Post by bttf » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

rollo wrote: post #8

Sounds like it was great last year, so it's absolutely worth it. Such events are definitely needed.

Why are they needed? To counter genderism? If so, doesn't it seem self-defeating to try to outgrow our sexist prejudices by actively countering them?

If women have suffered discrimination in the software development community, we can all make an effort not to let it happen. But to create an institutionalized/organized effort towards countering prejudice is to strengthen it by latching on to it, rather than acknowledging it and letting it go.

EDIT: To clarify my point, I think we all need to be aware of not only genderism but unfounded prejudice in general, towards all human beings. An institution/organization or summer camp towards the equality of all seems to me a more equitable premise rather than a 'Girls-only' camp, which seems to be legitimate only because most of us are aware of the historical prejudices towards women.