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Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

railsgirlssummerofcode.org

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Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#11

Post by vezzy-fnord »

not_paul_graham wrote: post #6
lutusp wrote: post #2

Do I need to explain what's wrong with this idea? Imagine that I started a program called "Rails boys summer of code". The alternative is obvious -- have qualified girls apply to an appropriately named rails summer of code, and if they're rejected based on their gender, take the responsible parties to court. This is how gender equality comes into being -- not by creating a set-aside program conspicuous only for its o…

I didn't have access to a (personal) computer till a few years before starting college. I'm currently using a 3 year old machine, granted it's still pretty fast for my needs, but if I saw a program that was only for girls, and there weren't any alternative for boys (at the age group this is targeted at) I would have been quite disappointed. I don't bear any ill-will towards this program, but I feel that kids are most…

What is next, you'll ask for funding for programs targeted at girls that are only hispanic or indian or black?

Already exists: http://www.blackgirlscode.com/

As a disclaimer, I have no opinion on them as I am not really informed about their activities.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#13

Post by 10098 »

natasham25 wrote: post #9
lutusp wrote: post #2

Do I need to explain what's wrong with this idea? Imagine that I started a program called "Rails boys summer of code". The alternative is obvious -- have qualified girls apply to an appropriately named rails summer of code, and if they're rejected based on their gender, take the responsible parties to court. This is how gender equality comes into being -- not by creating a set-aside program conspicuous only for its o…

I got my little sister - almost 15 - to apply for this program. It's important for me that she has a very safe and welcoming environment to get excited about coding - since this will be her introduction to it. I feel like having 15-16 year old boys in the program would be very distracting and counterproductive for her. This is from experience. I'm a woman who codes, and I mostly go to the women who code meetups becau…

> I feel like having 15-16 year old boys in the program would be very distracting and counterproductive for her.

Well, wouldn't having 15-16 year old girls around be distracting and counterproductive for boys? Also, how do those poor kids manage to learn anything in schools? It must be super difficult for them, having all those other kids of the opposite gender around. Maybe we should bring back the whole separate schools for boys and girls thing.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#14

Post by lutusp »

natasham25 wrote: post #9
lutusp wrote: post #2

Do I need to explain what's wrong with this idea? Imagine that I started a program called "Rails boys summer of code". The alternative is obvious -- have qualified girls apply to an appropriately named rails summer of code, and if they're rejected based on their gender, take the responsible parties to court. This is how gender equality comes into being -- not by creating a set-aside program conspicuous only for its o…

I got my little sister - almost 15 - to apply for this program. It's important for me that she has a very safe and welcoming environment to get excited about coding - since this will be her introduction to it. I feel like having 15-16 year old boys in the program would be very distracting and counterproductive for her. This is from experience. I'm a woman who codes, and I mostly go to the women who code meetups becau…

> I got my little sister - almost 15 - to apply for this program. It's important for me that she has a very safe and welcoming environment to get excited about coding - since this will be her introduction to it. I feel like having 15-16 year old boys in the program would be very distracting and counterproductive for her.

All completely reasonable points, and your choices also seem reasonable. But let me ask when, if ever, your sister will be able to leave that sequestered environment and enter the real world. Isn't it our goal to take down these barriers and achieve gender equality?

Gender equality doesn't mean two colonies, one of men and another of women. It means one society composed of men and women. Or am I wrong about that?

> I mostly go to the women who code meetups because I can learn in a safe space that I personally enjoy.

Yes, understood. That's why men go to meetings where only men are present -- same reasoning, same outcome.

> In meetups where there are only women, we get to actually learn and support each other, and it's great. I want the same environment for my sister to learn in.

I know a secret that I'm going to reveal to you -- that works for men too. But it has the unfortunate side effect of making men intolerant of the presence of women. Do you want that outcome for women?

I ask this in all sincerity, without judgment or rancor -- do you want a society in which men and women pay attention only to their own instincts and needs, and make no effort to construct a society composed of both men and women?

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#15

Post by wwwwwwwwww »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #12

Be careful who you donate to. Sometimes in the future you might become the CEO of Mozilla and this kind of sexism might be considered unacceptable enough to spark a boycott campaign.

Be careful about what topics you make political jokes about. Don't forget that your rights end where my feelings begin, especially regarding social issues.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#16

Post by lutusp »

not_paul_graham wrote: post #6
lutusp wrote: post #2

Do I need to explain what's wrong with this idea? Imagine that I started a program called "Rails boys summer of code". The alternative is obvious -- have qualified girls apply to an appropriately named rails summer of code, and if they're rejected based on their gender, take the responsible parties to court. This is how gender equality comes into being -- not by creating a set-aside program conspicuous only for its o…

I didn't have access to a (personal) computer till a few years before starting college. I'm currently using a 3 year old machine, granted it's still pretty fast for my needs, but if I saw a program that was only for girls, and there weren't any alternative for boys (at the age group this is targeted at) I would have been quite disappointed. I don't bear any ill-will towards this program, but I feel that kids are most…

> What is next, you'll ask for funding for programs targeted at girls that are only hispanic or indian or black?

How on earth did you draw this conclusion from a post in which I make exactly the opposite point? My point was that programs that single out groups, that sequester, are counterproductive. Read it again.

On re-reading your post, I now think you attached it to the wrong comment. That's the only rational explanation.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#17

Post by TheFullStack »

parennoob wrote: post #7

As an Asian person who undergoes a ton of implicit and occasionally explicit racial discrimination (I have often been called out repeatedly for belonging to a specific nationality, and been the butt of numerous jokes regarding it), it is somewhat disheartening to see people who are higher than you on the social totem pole (e.g. highly-educated white females) often being the beneficiaries of programs such as these on…

I'm also an Asian male and you're right about the implicit (and sometimes explicit) discrimination we deal with. I was at a party last summer and someone called me a "Jap" but was "just kidding." White people don't deal with this.

However, I also benefit from being an Asian male software developer. Whenever I meet new people in business, I am automatically assumed to be smart which has proven highly profitable. Finding work is never an issue and I make quite a comfortable living because people with money assume I am good at what I do - I have less to prove than a programmer who is say, Latino or perhaps female.

My solution? If you can't beat em, join em. Why don't you volunteer to teach at a girls code school? Might meet some cute female instructors who also like programming - pretty rare. Use your strengths in whatever way you can.

As a post-script to the "Jap" guy, a few weeks later he got fired from his job and has been out of work since. He is a high school educated white male in his late 20s. We all have our challenges and if being white also included being stupid, ignorant and money-less like this guy, I'll take Asian.

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#18

Post by username223 »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #12

Be careful who you donate to. Sometimes in the future you might become the CEO of Mozilla and this kind of sexism might be considered unacceptable enough to spark a boycott campaign.

How is a (silly and misguided, IMHO) set of perks for some people at all related to a campaign to deny basic rights to some other people because you think they're icky? Live and let live, yo!

Re: Help fund Rails Girls Summer of Code 2014

#20

Post by monkeynotes »

TheFullStack wrote: post #17
parennoob wrote: post #7

As an Asian person who undergoes a ton of implicit and occasionally explicit racial discrimination (I have often been called out repeatedly for belonging to a specific nationality, and been the butt of numerous jokes regarding it), it is somewhat disheartening to see people who are higher than you on the social totem pole (e.g. highly-educated white females) often being the beneficiaries of programs such as these on…

I'm also an Asian male and you're right about the implicit (and sometimes explicit) discrimination we deal with. I was at a party last summer and someone called me a "Jap" but was "just kidding." White people don't deal with this. However, I also benefit from being an Asian male software developer. Whenever I meet new people in business, I am automatically assumed to be smart which has proven highly profitable. Findi…

> White people don't deal with this.

I am white. I get called 'brit' or 'pom' or 'white guy' and so on all the time by colleagues of various ethnic or cultural backgrounds. I take it as friendly jibing unless I can see there is clear intention to upset.

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