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European Parliament passes net neutrality law

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Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#121

Post by Quarrelsome »

voicereasonish wrote: post #92
Karunamon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic. Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.

> Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money. OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU…

I love the EU man. It doesn't look like you understand the plan. Given the size of the US, China and India each European nation alone is weak. However combined they are the largest economy in the world.

We're doing this to remain relevant and to prevent other nations from tearing us apart through uneven economic exchanges much like workers ensure they cannot be exploited by joining unions. It is a union and has all the perks (and problems!) associated with unionization.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#122

Post by bayesianhorse »

voicereasonish wrote: post #79
bayesianhorse wrote: post #9

I think the EU is getting an amazing amount of work done, if you consider that it consists of 28 nation states which went to war with each other regularly for centuries up to a couple of decades ago...

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entir…

I did not suggest that actually, but I do believe the EU has contributed towards cementing peace in Europe. Certainly the EU made prosperity easier by removing the need for borders.

If you think the EU is too bureaucratic and wasteful, you might be right. But just consider the alternative, if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations. You would have to negotiate bilateral treaties between 28 nations.

Another good point for the EU is that it demands democratic standards from all the members.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#123

Post by mkaziz »

voicereasonish wrote: post #117
sgift wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That people feel better. Many things the EU does are about the feelings of people. I know, we are all rational beings and so on, we should just stop our feelings and get on with it. But that doesn't work. And because it doesn't work we don't say "English is our language from now on. You don't want that? Sucks to be you" and because of that the parliament moves between two cities.

The fact that some people, in some foreign country I will never visit, feel better, isn't much comfort to me I'm afraid.

Why not? To them, you're just some person in a foreign country.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#124

Post by bayesianhorse »

mattmanser wrote: post #115
sgift wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, we could discuss all day about the big russian bear which held Europe together, that there were no reasons to fight and so on. But let's just take a look at this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Communi... And there the reason for the ECSC, as stated by its "father" Robert Schuman: ----- He declared his aim was to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible" which w…

So what, European Unification-ists will say anything, it doesn't mean it's grounded in reality. It's simply a political ideal, and an incredibly out-dated one at that. And I believe it's as deluded as communism, it's simply not how humans work. We don't share cultures, we have different values. Other countries are splitting up in the world today, splitting into their ethnic groups, where the EU is bizarrely trying to…

That's a nice theory, but the real data doesn't back it up.

In reality, it's a delusion to believe that ethnicities and cultures can be divided by national borders. This hasn't ever worked except maybe on some islands. And not even in Great Britain, which consists of islands.

Even after the crash, Europe (and each and every of its members) is immensely more wealthy than after WWII, and still more wealthy than ever before.

Fascists did seize control of Greece several times, never under EU membership though. The EU did force Greece to get its affairs in order. But it sure wasn't pretty to watch...

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#125

Post by bayesianhorse »

voicereasonish wrote: post #116
claudius wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. Yeah, I certainly hope so. Britain has been helding back European integration long enough :)

I agree. I am British. I'm in no way whatsoever "European". We'll be better out of the EU, and the EU will be better without us.

Things will be different. For example, Britain will have absolutely zero say in any regulations or currency policies in the European Union. Which sounds great, from a british perspective, until you consider that the UK will be forced to swallow any EU regulation anyway. That's what the Swiss and Norway do by essentially importing labor and trade goods without checks or customs. If you want import controls and customs however, you have to sacrifice a percentage point or two of your GDP...

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#126

Post by JonnieCache »

voicereasonish wrote: post #79
bayesianhorse wrote: post #9

I think the EU is getting an amazing amount of work done, if you consider that it consists of 28 nation states which went to war with each other regularly for centuries up to a couple of decades ago...

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entir…

>money wasted in translating every document into every language

How do you think google trains their translation algorithms?

(They also use the UN equivalents.)

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#127

Post by bayesianhorse »

voicereasonish wrote: post #92
Karunamon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic. Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.

> Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money. OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU…

So are you one of those EU critics who think there should be no free trade in Europe? Thereby sacrificing a significant amount of points of GDP and disrupting (in a bad way) the European Economy?

Or are you of the other faction which actually believes you can have free trade without the EU, and even without talking to each other? Really, the alternative is 28*27 bilateral treaties on each and every issue in international trade. More, if you include Switzerland and Norway.

I think the back and forth isn't necessary. On the other hand, the parliament is regulating the biggest single economy in the world. I'd be careful of penny-pinching at the wrong end. And the parliament isn't the biggest cost in the EU budget. Quite the opposite.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#128

Post by Mvandenbergh »

mattmanser wrote: post #65
robin_reala wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which developed nations have gone to war with each other since WW2? Argentina / UK for one. And the Balkan conflicts for two.

The Balkans was a Yugoslavia civil war at its heart. I give you the Argentina/UK one, but that seriously almost didn't happen. And is really one of the last, thorny, vestiges of colonialism, like Israel.

Luckily Argentina's attempt to impose its colonial will was thwarted.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#129

Post by Karunamon »

voicereasonish wrote: post #117
sgift wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That people feel better. Many things the EU does are about the feelings of people. I know, we are all rational beings and so on, we should just stop our feelings and get on with it. But that doesn't work. And because it doesn't work we don't say "English is our language from now on. You don't want that? Sucks to be you" and because of that the parliament moves between two cities.

The fact that some people, in some foreign country I will never visit, feel better, isn't much comfort to me I'm afraid.

If you're wondering why all your comments are turning an ever-lightening shade of grey, it's because of uninformed, thoughtless, selfish sentiments like this.

The "ME ME ME" age of politics needs to end. And in some places, it appears it's moving towards that goal.

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