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Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

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Re: Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

#181
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rare on Windows too. Only on Hacker News, on this thread, does it appear to be an issue.

https://www.google.com/#q=winsock+reset No, it's not as rare as you think. Yes, it's because of the lousy design of the TCP/IP stack in windows.

Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't. Repetitive much?

There's nothing wrong with the network stack in Windows. NT has always had a first class network stack and they keep improving it with every release, as is normal for any modern mainstream OS.

PS: That Google link I assume was provided for humour rather than any real substance.

Two can play at that game:

https://www.google.co.uk/?q=osx+network+reset

https://www.google.co.uk/?q=linux+network+reset+defaults

Re: Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

#182
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rare on Windows too. Only on Hacker News, on this thread, does it appear to be an issue.

https://www.google.com/#q=winsock+reset No, it's not as rare as you think. Yes, it's because of the lousy design of the TCP/IP stack in windows.

That's resetting settings.

What netsh winsock reset does is tear out DLLs, tear out various registry settings and mucks about with other system files.

Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

#183
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the "problems" of which you speak are actually mainstream problems. It's perfectly possible to hose your network stack in any OS. Just don't do that and you'll be fine. USB drivers, sound drivers, printer drivers, web cam drivers, etc etc, are all using user-mode drivers since Vista. They cannot crash your system. Similarly, graphics card drivers use a special model that means they can auto-restart if they we…

I used to do technical support for several ISPs before moving into a somehow nuttier profession(PHP development). netsh winsock reset fixed quite a lot of things. BTW: Before Microsoft added an automated tool in NetShell to repair corrupted WinSock2, this was the manual procedure: http://www.wikihow.com/Repair-Winsock-and-TCP/IP Crappy Win32 APIs where bugs are features isn't a mainstream problem? Somehow in your dec…

The fact you merely once did tech support and then moved to PHP development explains why you hold ridiculous opinions on various things.

I'm sure Winsock reset _did_ solve a lot of problems, for you. But at the same time you probably just made other problems for the poor peoples affected by your tech support. Whilst Winsock reset may have removed the particular third-party component that was causing the issue (often shitty AV software), it will have removed any others that had valid reason to be there, such as VPN software. Do some reading about LSPs (layered service providers) in the context of Winsock and educate yourself.

"Crappy Win32 APIs" Citation needed. (Figure of speech on HN, don't worry I'm not expecting you to actually try to find one)

"Somehow in your decades of using Windows you have never run into buggy, crash prone applications." Don't put words in my mouth. Of course I've experienced buggy crash prone applications. Just as I've experienced such things on OSX and Linux. As long as such shitty apps don't bring down the OS or your Shell, all's fine really. Don't blame the OS for shitty third party crap.

"And it happens often enough that if you're in any sort of support role," Starting to see a pattern here. You misdiagnosed a lot of problems when you used to work in tech support, huh? Don't blame you, gets them off the phone doesn't it?

Nobody denies the Registry is stupid by design. But that doesn't make it buggy and broken like you claim. Microsoft acknowledges the Registry should never have happened and they do their best now to try to encourage better practices.

"I can't find any better sources for why I thought that the driver model itself was wrong," Because you won't find any but don't let me stop your desperate web searching to back up bullshit claims.

"but I do remember that a lot of Windows crashes happen because of crappy drivers" Well thanks for that Mr Captain Obvious. Just like shitty drivers on ANY of the big 3 OSes can and do cause crashes? With the other big percentage of Windows crashes being faulty hardware. Fortunately Windows has advanced itself to such a point now where the vast majority of drivers, especially those most likely to be badly written (i.e. all things USB pretty much!) are held as user-mode processes that are unable to crash the system.

"I remember there was a specific reason for it, and it wasn't fixed in as late as Windows 7, and it's even considered a feature." Nothing was "fixed" in Windows 7 concerning the fundamental stability of the driver model in Windows. They make subtle and often completely unnoticed resiliency improvements all the time. NT 6.0 (Vista to laymen) added the capability to automatically restart a kernel-mode graphics driver. Which happened to be quite a valuable feature at the time because Nvidia especially was really struggling to write stable LDDM (aka WDDM now, the L stood for Longhorn) graphics drivers at the time. It took them a good 6 months to sort those issues, during which time they were leaning on the inherent resiliency of the NT 6.0 kernel to keep customers sane.

Re: Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

#184
post #182
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/#q=winsock+reset No, it's not as rare as you think. Yes, it's because of the lousy design of the TCP/IP stack in windows.

That's resetting settings . What netsh winsock reset does is tear out DLLs, tear out various registry settings and mucks about with other system files. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

This describes perfectly what a Winsock reset performs and it doesn't exactly correlate with your FUD: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299357

So there is no real distinction here between a Winsock reset and the equivalent operations in the other 2 big OSes. The difference is that whilst Windows holds its network configuration in the Registry (ugh), the other two do not. The operations being performed is otherwise pretty much identical.

Re: Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

#185
post #161
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What in the world are you talking about? Apps in Xamarin can be as much as 10mb for a full app. Its linker is smart and knows not to bring in stuff it doesn't need. If you don't, it's around 40mb.

I'm talking about releasing a cross platform app for Windows, Linux, OSX, Android, and iOS, and the differences between Java/C# and C. To be fair I haven't tried to release an app for Windows/OSX from Xamarin but my understanding is that it requires the .NET or Mono frameworks which on most computers is a 100 to 200 MB install. For Java you're for sure going to have to download the JRE. When you start the app it eats…

The most basic mono install currently takes about 3.7 MB of disk space, this includes about 1.7 MB for the JIT and 2 MB for mscorlib.dll.

http://www.mono-project.com/Small_footprint

Re: Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

#186
post #168
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can rely on C# being on all platforms by default? Linux and OS X? Really? Last time I used Windows (several years ago), there were always apps that needed to download and install the latest version of the .NET runtime... - is that still a thing?

is that still a thing? come on, you make it sound like Windows is the only OS that has prerequisites for software? Last time I checked, yesterday, I wanted to get a file server running on my Debian machine and I had to apt-get install 5 different packages I didn't yet have. So, yes, that's still a thing, and it always will be. Although afaik since Windows 7 .Net 4 or at least 3.5 should always be there, and 4.5 on Wi…

Comparing to Debian isn't exactly setting the highest bar for usability. FWIW, OS X manages to support native code without requiring runtime downloads or other manual dependency management.

Re: Microsoft introduces Universal Windows apps

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what about Linux?

Mono! Lots of ASP.Net projects (like Nancyfx or SignalR) are actually built on Mono. I think there's some hope that web dev on Windows isn't dead.

Miguel de Icaza considers Linux dead (http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2013/Mar-05.html). It shows. Last time I tried to compile latest version of mono on ubuntu (a couple of months ago) it was a painful process of missing dependencies and compiler errors. In the end, I couldn't make it run.
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