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US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

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Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#31

Post by gadders »

not_paul_graham wrote: post #3

This almost sounds like something that someone would make up. Why the hell would the US Govt. want so much unrest all over the world? Haven't they learned from their screw ups in the past [0]? US supported Egyptian army is doing god knows what in Egypt; the US has been involved in the two biggest wars in recent memory (Iraq, Afghanistan), and in not-so-covert operations in countries like Pakistan, Syria and the like.…

I think you typed "unrest" when you meant "democracy".

The Egyptian army is not perfect, but the Muslim Brotherhood was worse. Iraq and Afghanistan are also better off then they were under Saddam and the Taliban.

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#32

Post by why-el »

gadders wrote: post #28
aylons wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never heard of a work of USAID that does not involve US trying to enforce his vision of politics in the country. Could you please illuminate me?

Yeah, all that crazy freedom and democracy.

Can't work out whether you are being sarcastic or not, but the notion of a free country exporting freedom and democracy is a novel one. A quick survey of history will tell you that a country A being democratic does not necessarily mean it will support countries to follow suit. Think England back in the late 1800s: Very liberal by anyone's standards at that time, but follows horrendous policies overseas.

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#33

Post by jbooth »

morgante wrote: post #29

I'm sure this will bring me lots of downvotes, but I actually applaud these tactics. Helping people in oppressive regimes to communicate freely with each other is one of the more humanitarian actions the US can take, and this sort of connectivity is critical in allowing people a degree of freedom even under totalitarian governments. Truly repressive regimes are out there, and without foreign interference and investme…

Well, the US has a pretty checkered history regarding Cuba if you're going to talk about altruism. I'd say we've done more to inadvertantly prop up that regime than to undermine it. There are 3 nominally communist countries left in the world, from a high of dozens -- Cuba's one of them, and probably the closest to actually being communist (China and North Korea being technocratic-capitalist and pharaonic, respectively).

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#34

Post by morgante »

jbooth wrote: post #33
morgante wrote: post #29

I'm sure this will bring me lots of downvotes, but I actually applaud these tactics. Helping people in oppressive regimes to communicate freely with each other is one of the more humanitarian actions the US can take, and this sort of connectivity is critical in allowing people a degree of freedom even under totalitarian governments. Truly repressive regimes are out there, and without foreign interference and investme…

Well, the US has a pretty checkered history regarding Cuba if you're going to talk about altruism. I'd say we've done more to inadvertantly prop up that regime than to undermine it. There are 3 nominally communist countries left in the world, from a high of dozens -- Cuba's one of them, and probably the closest to actually being communist (China and North Korea being technocratic-capitalist and pharaonic, respectivel…

Agreed. I definitely don't think we've always had the best policies on Cuba, and also am not entirely convinced Cuba is itself the best target of this sort of effort.

But regardless I think the tactics themselves are commendable. Speech, not guns.

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#35

Post by choonkeymoonkey »

myth_drannon wrote: post #9
not_paul_graham wrote: post #3

This almost sounds like something that someone would make up. Why the hell would the US Govt. want so much unrest all over the world? Haven't they learned from their screw ups in the past [0]? US supported Egyptian army is doing god knows what in Egypt; the US has been involved in the two biggest wars in recent memory (Iraq, Afghanistan), and in not-so-covert operations in countries like Pakistan, Syria and the like.…

Strong governments are an obstacle to corporate ambitions of taking over the resources of the country.

Because those strong governments surely don't mean to exploit the resources of the country to buy themselves gold plated private jets...

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#36

Post by davidw »

jbooth wrote: post #33
morgante wrote: post #29

I'm sure this will bring me lots of downvotes, but I actually applaud these tactics. Helping people in oppressive regimes to communicate freely with each other is one of the more humanitarian actions the US can take, and this sort of connectivity is critical in allowing people a degree of freedom even under totalitarian governments. Truly repressive regimes are out there, and without foreign interference and investme…

Well, the US has a pretty checkered history regarding Cuba if you're going to talk about altruism. I'd say we've done more to inadvertantly prop up that regime than to undermine it. There are 3 nominally communist countries left in the world, from a high of dozens -- Cuba's one of them, and probably the closest to actually being communist (China and North Korea being technocratic-capitalist and pharaonic, respectivel…

Vietnam is too, in name, but is similar to China, from what I understand. Laos is communist is well, IIRC.

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#37

Post by moo »

morgante wrote: post #23
xenophonf wrote: post #8

I am so disappointed. The kinds of outreach and charity provided by USAID isn't perfect, but the intent behind it was always good. Heck, if anything I'm really, really proud of the humanitarian work the U.S. government does, including USAID at State and NIH and CDC at HHS. Overthrowing governments is completely at odds with humanitarian missions, never mind the fact that the outcomes (especially in the Americas) for…

> Overthrowing governments is completely at odds with humanitarian missions Is it? Oppressive regimes can pose a direct threat to human well-being and sometimes the best thing you can do for people's humanity is to overthrough said regime.

Human well-being, along with literacy, are Cuba's strong suit. They send doctors all over the world, such as during environmental disasters. During the 2010 Haiti earthquake, the U.S. sent troops, weird. But I guess the Haitians are free to eat mud cakes. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/29/food.internatio...

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#39

Post by not_paul_graham »

gadders wrote: post #31
not_paul_graham wrote: post #3

This almost sounds like something that someone would make up. Why the hell would the US Govt. want so much unrest all over the world? Haven't they learned from their screw ups in the past [0]? US supported Egyptian army is doing god knows what in Egypt; the US has been involved in the two biggest wars in recent memory (Iraq, Afghanistan), and in not-so-covert operations in countries like Pakistan, Syria and the like.…

I think you typed "unrest" when you meant "democracy". The Egyptian army is not perfect, but the Muslim Brotherhood was worse. Iraq and Afghanistan are also better off then they were under Saddam and the Taliban.

Muslim Brotherhood was a democratically elected party in power.

The past year has been the most violent in Iraq in terms of civilian deaths and targeted attacks. A lot of my Iraqi friends mention that Iraq was more peaceful under Saddam (despite the fact that they didn't like him as the ruler). A lot of tribal leaders that supported Saddam switched alliances when the was was eminent and so a lot of these individuals are still in power.

In certain parts of Afghanistan, the Taliban is already clawing back to power, and it is very likely that they will come to rule major parts of the country again (without continued intervention).

Re: US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest

#40

Post by tomp »

morgante wrote: post #29

I'm sure this will bring me lots of downvotes, but I actually applaud these tactics. Helping people in oppressive regimes to communicate freely with each other is one of the more humanitarian actions the US can take, and this sort of connectivity is critical in allowing people a degree of freedom even under totalitarian governments. Truly repressive regimes are out there, and without foreign interference and investme…

Right... as if the US could not do anything else to help Cuba and it's people. (E.g. abolishing the trade embargo.)
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