European Parliament passes net neutrality law • Hacker News Board

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#91

Post by voicereasonish » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 1:46 PM UTC

M2Ys4U wrote: post #85

voicereasonish wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entir…

> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous. You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO. >From regulations on fruit Ugh. I wish people wou…

> You may be waiting a lot longer than you think.

No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say in who is creating our laws.

There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point.

The public will demand we govern ourselves rather than be dictated to by some foreigners.

If not, I'm sure there will be wars pretty soon...

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#92

Post by voicereasonish » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 1:50 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #83

voicereasonish wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entir…

>The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic. Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.

> Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite?

No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money.

OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU obligation to hold meetings also in France."

What the hell is the point of that amount of waste and traveling?

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#93

Post by gadders » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 1:53 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #65

robin_reala wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which developed nations have gone to war with each other since WW2? Argentina / UK for one. And the Balkan conflicts for two.

The Balkans was a Yugoslavia civil war at its heart. I give you the Argentina/UK one, but that seriously almost didn't happen. And is really one of the last, thorny, vestiges of colonialism, like Israel.

No it isn't, it's about self-determination.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#94

Post by Fuxy » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 1:53 PM UTC

johansch wrote: post #57

Here's a kind of sickening statement: '"Europe's telecoms operators are facing decreasing revenues ... compared with operators in the U.S. and Asia," said the GSM Association, an industry group for mobile phone companies. In a statement signed by director Anne Bouverot, the group said European laws are "impairing their ability to invest in the infrastructure required to put Europe back on the path to growth and jobs.…

Yes... because companies with high profits hire more people... not.

You only ever hire when you need more people and if you're making tonnes of money it means your network is OK compared to everyone else and you don't need to invest more.

I think they will be more motivated now that the roaming cash cow is gone.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#95

Post by claudius » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 2:11 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #53

madaxe_again wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU was born out of the EC, which was born out of the EEC, which was born out of ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community). The entire concept of the EU is that a straightforward homogenous marketplace engenders trade which in turn engenders peace, as attacking your trading partners is rarely a beneficial move. Nuclear weapons and MAD were extant before the EEC and throughout its existence, and have not played a ro…

Come on, that's a silly thing to say, everyone's empires were significantly dismantled after WW2. It's easy not to fight when there's nothing to fight over and you've got a massive bear beating at the door. I'm not claiming the EU's done nothing, I think it's made Europe richer, increased growth, etc., I'm claiming the EU had nothing to do with peace in Europe. Europe would still be at peace today with or without a c…

> Which developed nations have gone to war with each other since WW2?

Which non-European developed countries have previously gone to war with each other as regularly as European nations?

Also compare the situation in Europe to that in e.g. east Asia with its rather curious barking over tiny islands or even eastern, non-EU Europe where an independent nation was just invaded.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#96

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 2:13 PM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #26

mattmanser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking of the Cold War, the end of Colonialism and Nuclear Bombs and confusing it with something the EU did.

The EU was born out of the EC, which was born out of the EEC, which was born out of ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community). The entire concept of the EU is that a straightforward homogenous marketplace engenders trade which in turn engenders peace, as attacking your trading partners is rarely a beneficial move. Nuclear weapons and MAD were extant before the EEC and throughout its existence, and have not played a ro…

I think it's worth distinguishing between the implementation of the EU (which is .. buggy) and the concept (which is a great universal message of peace and brotherhood and prosperity, so powerful that you have non-EU countries and peoples begging to be admitted)

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#97

Post by mcintyre1994 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 2:13 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #90

hendrik-xdest wrote: post #31

I wouldn't give too much on this just yet. From the information in the article I can't tell if the word "strong" is correct for what was passed today. If anything, an indicator that Neelie Kroes is happy with the result might point to a weak law that won't help net neutrality at all. We might not have the "Specialised services" part in there anymore. Yet, let's wait until the dust settles and some people have read th…

Would you elaborate on your final paragraph, please? I wasn't aware of either a closed-door US-EU trade agreement in the works, or any back room ACTA-style deal in a Canada-EU treaty.

The US-EU trade agreement may refer to TTIP, whose contents do seem to be secret at the moment. http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#98

Post by sgift » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 2:15 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #53

madaxe_again wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU was born out of the EC, which was born out of the EEC, which was born out of ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community). The entire concept of the EU is that a straightforward homogenous marketplace engenders trade which in turn engenders peace, as attacking your trading partners is rarely a beneficial move. Nuclear weapons and MAD were extant before the EEC and throughout its existence, and have not played a ro…

Come on, that's a silly thing to say, everyone's empires were significantly dismantled after WW2. It's easy not to fight when there's nothing to fight over and you've got a massive bear beating at the door. I'm not claiming the EU's done nothing, I think it's made Europe richer, increased growth, etc., I'm claiming the EU had nothing to do with peace in Europe. Europe would still be at peace today with or without a c…

You know, we could discuss all day about the big russian bear which held Europe together, that there were no reasons to fight and so on. But let's just take a look at this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Communi...

And there the reason for the ECSC, as stated by its "father" Robert Schuman: ----- He declared his aim was to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible" which was to be achieved by regional integration, of which the ECSC was the first step. The Treaty would create a common market for coal and steel among its member states which served to neutralise competition between European nations over natural resources, particularly in the Ruhr. ----

So, would Germany have attacked other countries again without the ECSC? No one knows, because crystal balls are bugged again. But we know that the stated reason for the ECSC (and everything that followed) was the fear that Germany would do this. And this fear lead to the idea of making war against each other impossible. And that worked quite well so far.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#99

Post by claudius » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 2:16 PM UTC

voicereasonish wrote: post #91

M2Ys4U wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous. You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO. >From regulations on fruit Ugh. I wish people wou…

> You may be waiting a lot longer than you think. No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say in who is creating our laws. There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. The public will demand we govern ourselves rather tha…

> There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point.

Yeah, I certainly hope so. Britain has been helding back European integration long enough :)

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#100

Post by coob » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 2:16 PM UTC

voicereasonish wrote: post #91

M2Ys4U wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous. You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO. >From regulations on fruit Ugh. I wish people wou…

> You may be waiting a lot longer than you think. No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say in who is creating our laws. There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. The public will demand we govern ourselves rather tha…

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/07/eu-referendum-paradox/

Not sure that qualifies as 'overwhelmingly hostile', especially with so many undecideds.