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Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

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Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#11

Post by davidfm »

funkyy wrote: post #4

Its hard to give you much detail based on information you have provided. 7 years seems a long time for company earning low income. Do you see yourself in this industry in few years? Do you have possibility to grow? Who is your customers - large companies, smes?

I've been in the industry since 95, so, yes, I see myself here for the long run. Wouldn't rule out an exit from this business if the opportunity arose though. I believe growth potential is bigger than most of the super-inflated valuations around right now. Current customers are larger end of SME but it's not limited up or down - just been easiest to sell to!

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#12

Post by davidfm »

hackerboos wrote: post #10
davidfm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to stay 'under the radar' but maybe you're right, could be time to come out of stealth mode, thanks.

Stealth Mode is a bad idea unless you're somehow legally obliged to keep quiet.

No legal obligation. I should clarify, the industry that has been buying into it knows me very well, I've not been stealth there. I've just started focussing on another industry - they will know me well within 12 months. But whilst I can't scale quickly enough to get early mover advantage I don't want to draw to much attention to what I'm doing. Catch 22 I guess!

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#13

Post by fraserm »

davidfm wrote: post #8
david927 wrote: post #5

This seems to me to be right from the MBA textbook chapter called, "What happens if you have no Business Development". You need to get more customers (and not just from referral, though that's great), and you need more buzz. When you get stronger demand, the capital supply will more easily rise up to greet it.

I know I can get lots of customers very quickly, I'm turning business away. My issue is letting them down because I don't have the resources to support them. (my previous roles were biz-dev, I do that well)

Is your issue that you need cash to fund business expenses or a developer to add features to grow the product?

If the latter and you are confident in quickly adding revenue why not offer some equity/percentage of profit in lieu of salary? If the product is interesting you should be able to find someone willing to take on the risk.

The whoishiring thread would be a decent place to start.

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#14

Post by davidfm »

fraserm wrote: post #13
davidfm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I can get lots of customers very quickly, I'm turning business away. My issue is letting them down because I don't have the resources to support them. (my previous roles were biz-dev, I do that well)

Is your issue that you need cash to fund business expenses or a developer to add features to grow the product? If the latter and you are confident in quickly adding revenue why not offer some equity/percentage of profit in lieu of salary? If the product is interesting you should be able to find someone willing to take on the risk. The whoishiring thread would be a decent place to start.

It is definitely the latter. The business has next to no expenses (just me and my family!). I'll take a look at whoishiring again. Maybe I can persuade someone to work in that manner for a few months till I get the sales flowing. Thanks v. much

Edit: just went through April's whoishiring. Is it common to ask for equity in lieu of salary? Do developers really consider that?

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#15

Post by david927 »

davidfm wrote: post #8
david927 wrote: post #5

This seems to me to be right from the MBA textbook chapter called, "What happens if you have no Business Development". You need to get more customers (and not just from referral, though that's great), and you need more buzz. When you get stronger demand, the capital supply will more easily rise up to greet it.

I know I can get lots of customers very quickly, I'm turning business away. My issue is letting them down because I don't have the resources to support them. (my previous roles were biz-dev, I do that well)

If you're sure you can get the business to support it, then go to the bank and get a loan. If you aren't able to do that, you're probably stuck slowly bootstrapping. (You're asking for advice, but it's hard to really help because you haven't given a lot of details.) If you have 20 customers after years and it's not profitable enough to hire more developers, I'm guessing you'll have a hard time finding investors. But I don't know. In all cases, I wish you luck and hope you find what it takes to get lift-off. I know how hard it is.

Edit: You might want to take a look at http://www.cofounderslab.com

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#16

Post by HerokuMan »

davidfm wrote: post #14
fraserm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your issue that you need cash to fund business expenses or a developer to add features to grow the product? If the latter and you are confident in quickly adding revenue why not offer some equity/percentage of profit in lieu of salary? If the product is interesting you should be able to find someone willing to take on the risk. The whoishiring thread would be a decent place to start.

It is definitely the latter. The business has next to no expenses (just me and my family!). I'll take a look at whoishiring again. Maybe I can persuade someone to work in that manner for a few months till I get the sales flowing. Thanks v. much Edit: just went through April's whoishiring. Is it common to ask for equity in lieu of salary? Do developers really consider that?

Can you put up a contact e-mail?

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#17

Post by davidfm »

HerokuMan wrote: post #16
davidfm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely the latter. The business has next to no expenses (just me and my family!). I'll take a look at whoishiring again. Maybe I can persuade someone to work in that manner for a few months till I get the sales flowing. Thanks v. much Edit: just went through April's whoishiring. Is it common to ask for equity in lieu of salary? Do developers really consider that?

Can you put up a contact e-mail?

david.miller.hn [at] gmail.com

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#18

Post by davidfm »

david927 wrote: post #15
davidfm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I can get lots of customers very quickly, I'm turning business away. My issue is letting them down because I don't have the resources to support them. (my previous roles were biz-dev, I do that well)

If you're sure you can get the business to support it, then go to the bank and get a loan. If you aren't able to do that, you're probably stuck slowly bootstrapping. (You're asking for advice, but it's hard to really help because you haven't given a lot of details.) If you have 20 customers after years and it's not profitable enough to hire more developers, I'm guessing you'll have a hard time finding investors. But…

I looked at cofounderslab a while back. Can't remember what stopped me completing it then. It seems to have evolved a lot. Thanks for replying, much appreciated.

Edit: CoFoundersLab looks really hopeful David. It's just gone down for updates but I liked what I saw - thanks again!

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#19

Post by brudgers »

So here's the question: would you bring in a 50-50 partner (both of you on a vesting schedule) in order to scale and not merely grow? That is, would you give someone half the company to triple customers in a year...or something like that?

The last seven years is sunk cost and the only effect it can have on the future of the company besides providing a knowledge base is psychological drag. And bringing in a partner with large equity is exactly what taking VC is anyway..except that VC will make decisions based upon distribution of risk while a 5050 partner will have a similar concentration of risk to yours.

Overcoming the sunk cost mindset is tough. Just giving someone half a company you spent seven years building sounds crazy. But the seven years you spent getting to this point are irrelevant to VC decision-making. All that matters is going forward. Any different orientation on your part creates an impedence of expectations.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: Where do I go from here?

#20

Post by davidfm »

brudgers wrote: post #19

So here's the question: would you bring in a 50-50 partner (both of you on a vesting schedule) in order to scale and not merely grow? That is, would you give someone half the company to triple customers in a year...or something like that? The last seven years is sunk cost and the only effect it can have on the future of the company besides providing a knowledge base is psychological drag. And bringing in a partner wi…

Thanks for that. Interesting. Would I give up 50%? Yes - for the right return. I know I can do much, much better than triple customers if I can leave the technical debt to someone trustworthy. I accept that the last seven years is sunk cost. But I have seven years of amazing customer relations - a network that will flourish into $$$ when I have the opportunity to scale. I also have a product. Maybe not the perfectly polished product that developers better than me can make it, but It's Already Good and it will only get better. At this stage, giving (say) 50% to a VC and using that to buy staff (and ideally get accelerated growth via the VC's network) or giving that percentage to a partner who will concentrate to the same degree doesn't phase me. In my mind, they are each 50% of different values. The VC's investment immediately values the business greater than it currently is. The right partner does the same. I'm open to both routes. My problem is getting from here to either of those positions without killing the business whilst focussing on it.

Edit: just looked at your blog - my system mails checks and takes just a little of that back every month :-)

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