Why do you need a woman? I don't understand why we all talk about the gender problem in engineering, then continue it by isolating female students from male teachers. There is no isolation between male students and female teachers, or same gender students and teachers. If we want to move towards equality, why carefully structure inequality in?
Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
111–120 of 171 posts
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#112Would like an update about this. Wondered how I would handle such a request. 12 year old would not have much inspiration watching me fix bugs and read hacker news
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#113Why do you need a woman? I don't understand why we all talk about the gender problem in engineering, then continue it by isolating female students from male teachers. There is no isolation between male students and female teachers, or same gender students and teachers. If we want to move towards equality, why carefully structure inequality in?
Not every individual's parenting decision needs to be treated as an overall trend to be analyzed and correct.
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
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This comment is also out of line. Two wrongs do not make a right, and personal attacks are absolutely unwelcome on Hacker News. It doesn't matter how provocative the other person was being. When you see something provocative on HN, please reflect before responding. Fighting poison with poison makes things worse. Please either add comments that make things better, or no comments. When responding to a toxic comment, re…
I wrote this on a sticky note and put it on my monitor. It will be my mantra for the next few days.
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
well, probably healthier relationships with other people, for starters. blowing off your obligations to do whatever makes you happy is probably going to upset a lot of other folks. there's certainly a balance to be had, and it isn't fully in favor of short term happiness, either.
And sitting in front of a computer for an extra 16 hours a week learning to program at the age of 12 instead of having normal social interactions is supposed to enable her to have "healthier relationships with other people"? > blowing off your obligations She is 12 years old. Are you people mad? She has very few obligations and that's a good thing. Let her have some fun before she needs to start being an adult.
huh, can't find the part where i suggested that. or anything like it.
in fact, pretty sure i said something about balance.
> She is 12 years old. Are you people mad?
i was addressing the values that kids should be taught, not the expectations for their behavior, and certainly not the expectations for one particular kid i don't even know.
perhaps look harder for alternative interpretations before resorting to madness as the most likely explanation next time?
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a man and I modelled my professional self on a woman, so I have some difficulty with this. I believe that choosing to limit one's role models by gender is a problem.
The average man in an engineering discipline can trivially meet other male engineers, and will be pretty much surrounded by them anywhere they work. This would be true at the grade-school level up through the pinnacle of their careers. This is not true for women. This guy's daughter might be the only girl in her class who feels comfortable expressing an interest in engineering. She might go on to be one of a tiny (an…
I mean I genuinely do not understand why this is actually helpful. The lady engineers I talk to are either all pandering to me, or are as confused as I am.
I don't understand why we're presuming that a girl can't have a good, positive male role model, just like I, a boy, had a good, positive female role model.
.
"She might go on to be one of a tiny (and steadily decreasing) number of women in an overwhelmingly male university-level engineering program."
So, as we bucketted women out of the mainstream and told them they could only learn from people like themselves, their global participation began to drop.
I mean really, the data you're recommending seems to suggest that what we're doing is destructive.
It was not the case, in Elizabeth Cady Stanton's work, that the newly liberated woman was expected to learn only from other women. They're supposed to be equal.
The supporting claims seem to be assertions of better-ness with no supporting data or logic other than an intuitive feeling that the child's recognition of similarity is somehow more important than the child's early exposure to diversity (something most data backed child rearing studies disagree with.)
I do understand that your opinion is that a girl will have an emotional need to only learn from women.
Do you have any data to defend this? This seems bizarre and offensive to me, as it does to the female engineer who spoke up elsewhere in this thread.
I think that, just like men, women can learn from anyone, and should choose the best source, not the most similar source.
You can't create an inclusive society by educating explicitly exclusively, in my viewpoint.
I would love to see actual data, rather than beliefs or opinions, which suggest that learning from a demographically similar role model produces better results than learning from the best available role model, or that taking a role model from what you claim is an extreme minority, rather than building bonds and understanding with the majority, leads to more inclusion, despite that you also claim that inclusion is decreasing, despite that this sort of like-only mentorship is increasing.
It seems like your own data contradicts you. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#117Why do you need a woman? I don't understand why we all talk about the gender problem in engineering, then continue it by isolating female students from male teachers. There is no isolation between male students and female teachers, or same gender students and teachers. If we want to move towards equality, why carefully structure inequality in?
Because this father feels his daughter would be more inspired by meeting an engineer who is a woman, and/or feels that a woman would be more interested in mentoring a girl, and/or would be more comfortable introducing his young daughter to adult women that he met on HN than to adult men he met on HN. Not every individual's parenting decision needs to be treated as an overall trend to be analyzed and correct.
Sometimes it's actually perfectly valid to politely ask someone why they think something.
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Do you think that it would somehow be more equal for women to only have male role models?" You seem to be going to great effort to misunderstand me. By saying "I think young people should have access to everyone, not just people demographically like them," you seem to have heard "I think young women should only have access to people unlike them." A call for inclusion has been misrepresented as a call for exclusion.…
It's absolutely trivial to meet male engineers. Many, if not most, of his daughters role models will end up being male engineers. The effort isn't to exclude men from being involved in her career choice / education, the effort is to include a woman in it.
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>Consider it like getting an advice on getting into a good college from someone who got in using Affirmative Action vs someone who didn't. A better analogy would be considering someone getting into a good college because of their connections & wealthy parents vs someone who didn't.
"A better analogy would be considering someone getting into a good college because of their connections & wealthy parents vs someone who didn't." In that case, isn't it absolutely imperative to start making those connections, by not demographically binning mentors? Connections don't just spring out of nowhere.
I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole here because I know where this is leading to from past experience on HN, but....
I think in the tech-scene(probably society in general) some of those connections are easier made(and sometimes come as default) depending on gender/race.
Re: Any female engineers in San Diego interested in showing my daughter their work?
#120Why do you need a woman? I don't understand why we all talk about the gender problem in engineering, then continue it by isolating female students from male teachers. There is no isolation between male students and female teachers, or same gender students and teachers. If we want to move towards equality, why carefully structure inequality in?