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Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

corner.squareup.com

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Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#121

Post by nailer »

tssva wrote: post #54
nailer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this Square? Square up has a different logo and looks a little more like generic bootstrap. I'm not sure if they're related or just an auction site with a similar name. Edit: yep, see https://www.squaremarket.com/about , this is not the US payment company most people on HN would call 'square' but an auction site started by Oxford grads.

No, it is Square Up. See https://squareup.com/market

I know, I just pointed that out.

I think people don't realize I'm responding to the parent, which stated:

> How is Square/Stripe getting around the issue that most exchanges wait for 6 confirmations before a transaction is accepted?

Square isn't doing anything with Bitcoin. SquareUp is.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#122

Post by meowface »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #103
meowface wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to hear why bitcoin reflects a better choice than cards for the consumer. I think security would be an obvious answer. Credit cards are like symmetric cryptography: there's only one secret (a number), which you must share with everyone you ever want to send or receive money from. Any malicious actor who gets that number can then use it to extract money from your card. Sure, it's probably FDIC insured, bu…

Any malicious actor who gets that number can then use it to extract money from your card. Sure, it's probably FDIC insured, but they still make out with some of your money. Actually, you lose none of your money. The credit card company completely refunds you. Someone once stole my card and got some gas with it, and the next day I got the transaction refunded and a new card issued within 10 minutes. Bitcoin is far les…

When I say "they make out with some fo your money" I meant the bank's money.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#123

Post by Fuxy »

abalone wrote: post #85

This is a strange case for bitcoin, competing with credit cards. Most consumers would be better off paying with a card: same cost (none), more protections (the ability to dispute bad merchants over defective goods). It's not a bad idea for Square to add it, since some people have bitcoins obtained through speculation, mining, cheap money transfers, and so forth. But even so, they would be a little better served payin…

Customer yes however sellers have quite an incentive to ask for bitcoin if they can since their the one paying the high fees to the credit card companies and there's no risk of fraudulent charge back which most businesses just have to accept and factor into the price of the product.

And in a way the customers too since the seller has to factor in the card fees when selling a product however they may be able to give you a better price if you pay with bitcoin.

Your assumption that any fees the seller pays do not affect the price of the product are flawed.

It's simple business you need to pay more fees you need to sell your product at a higher price to make a profit.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#124

Post by rlpb »

abalone wrote: post #85

This is a strange case for bitcoin, competing with credit cards. Most consumers would be better off paying with a card: same cost (none), more protections (the ability to dispute bad merchants over defective goods). It's not a bad idea for Square to add it, since some people have bitcoins obtained through speculation, mining, cheap money transfers, and so forth. But even so, they would be a little better served payin…

There are vendors I don't necessarily trust, and have never dealt with before. For these vendors, credit cards (with their protection, and the consequent premium) are perfect.

There are other vendors that I do trust and do repeat business with. For these vendors, I detest paying what is effectively a protection surcharge, when I don't need it. This is particularly the case for high value purchases where there is some percentage difference, rather than a small fixed amount. I appreciate the reason the payment purchaser must charge a fee; I just don't want the (protection) service provided.

In this case, I accept that I would take some additional risk, but I feel well enough protected by my country's legal system, when I am confident in the vendor's identity and that the sale would fall under my country's jurisdiction. This is not dissimilar to paying for something expensive by bank transfer to save on costs. This arrangement isn't quite that unusual in the UK, where UK-to-UK bank transfers for consumers are generally free. But this arrangement carries extra admin for the vendor in trying to match up transactions.

So a credit card is useful for some purchases (in particular, international ones, ones where I am not confident about the vendor's identity, or ones where I am not confident in the vendor's reputation). But for other transactions, I prefer to have the option of going direct. Bitcoin would be perfect for that, if it were more widely accepted.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#125

Post by ig1 »

rlpb wrote: post #124
abalone wrote: post #85

This is a strange case for bitcoin, competing with credit cards. Most consumers would be better off paying with a card: same cost (none), more protections (the ability to dispute bad merchants over defective goods). It's not a bad idea for Square to add it, since some people have bitcoins obtained through speculation, mining, cheap money transfers, and so forth. But even so, they would be a little better served payin…

There are vendors I don't necessarily trust, and have never dealt with before. For these vendors, credit cards (with their protection, and the consequent premium) are perfect. There are other vendors that I do trust and do repeat business with. For these vendors, I detest paying what is effectively a protection surcharge, when I don't need it. This is particularly the case for high value purchases where there is some…

I would almost always put expensive purchases (holidays, events, furniture, etc.) on credit card because if the vendor gets into financial trouble, etc. you basically have no protection under standard sales legislation (you have to get into line with all the other creditors) but you have significant protection if you purchase with a credit card.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#126

Post by rlpb »

ig1 wrote: post #125
rlpb wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are vendors I don't necessarily trust, and have never dealt with before. For these vendors, credit cards (with their protection, and the consequent premium) are perfect. There are other vendors that I do trust and do repeat business with. For these vendors, I detest paying what is effectively a protection surcharge, when I don't need it. This is particularly the case for high value purchases where there is some…

I would almost always put expensive purchases (holidays, events, furniture, etc.) on credit card because if the vendor gets into financial trouble, etc. you basically have no protection under standard sales legislation (you have to get into line with all the other creditors) but you have significant protection if you purchase with a credit card.

That's fine - there are specific purchases I would always want to pay the protection premium for, including for some of your examples.

But the risk involved varies depending on the situation. In cases where I consider the risk low enough, I would appreciate having the option of not paying the protection premium, and going without.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#127

Post by canvia »

abalone wrote: post #85

This is a strange case for bitcoin, competing with credit cards. Most consumers would be better off paying with a card: same cost (none), more protections (the ability to dispute bad merchants over defective goods). It's not a bad idea for Square to add it, since some people have bitcoins obtained through speculation, mining, cheap money transfers, and so forth. But even so, they would be a little better served payin…

I am really excited for the application of bitcoin to micro transaction and tipping/donation services. Typically with Paypal you pay a 2.9% + $.30 fee for every transaction. With donations and other transactions in the $2 range that equates to a $.35 or 17% overhead. With bitcoin you can pay 1%, or even a flat monthly fee if you do a large volume. The cost savings enable a variety of occupations that would otherwise be uneconomical.

This is better for the consumer because they have an increased variety of entertainment options that they can have the satisfaction of supporting, and it's better for the person receiving the bitcoin because of lower fees.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#128

Post by canvia »

rlpb wrote: post #126
ig1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would almost always put expensive purchases (holidays, events, furniture, etc.) on credit card because if the vendor gets into financial trouble, etc. you basically have no protection under standard sales legislation (you have to get into line with all the other creditors) but you have significant protection if you purchase with a credit card.

That's fine - there are specific purchases I would always want to pay the protection premium for, including for some of your examples. But the risk involved varies depending on the situation. In cases where I consider the risk low enough, I would appreciate having the option of not paying the protection premium, and going without.

There is absolutely no reason for a restaurant to pay 2.9% of their revenue for payment processing. Their total profit margin is probably around that much, so reducing the processing fee to 1% could potentially result in a very significant increase in profits for them. There is no necessity for insurance on a transaction like a restaurant bill.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#129

Post by contingencies »

Lerc wrote: post #119
contingencies wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You miss many elements with this summary, not the least of which is Bitcoin reaching a point of maturity with regards to regulation and compliance. To a large extent, that's happening next week in DC.

Yeah, It wasn't meant to be a detailed analysis. Having said that, I'd be inclined to put regulation and compliance milestones under the heading of infrastructure. If you mention Bitcoin now, People also don't assume you're a crazy Libertarian buying drugs off the internet (your parent's might still). In a funny sort of way that's infrastructure growth too.

That's true and a good point: mass market familiarity is certainly an asset. I'm not sure I'd call it infrastructure though, more like an environmental factor. Infrastructure, to me, means internal.

Re: Square Market Accepts Bitcoin

#130

Post by awt »

abalone wrote: post #115
awt wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many cases where credit cards don't work so well. Traveling abroad for instance. Every had your card denied because of a false positive for fraud? Ever lost your card on a trip? They won't send it to you where you're at. They'll only send it to your home address. You'd be much better off using something like the blockchain.info wallet while traveling. As long as you have web access, you have access to your…

If you can lose your card you can lose your phone too. You're proposing accessing your blockchain.info wallet via someone else's web browser? Sounds like a great way to get your entire wallet stolen. As for the inconvenience of getting a false positive fraud flag.. that's extremely rare, usually resolvable with a phone call, and probably an overall vastly more convenient way of protecting you than more inconvenient u…

Yeah don't access your blockchain.info wallet on a shared computer at an internet cafe, if you can find one of those anywhere still, sure. But maybe try your laptop, unless you lost that at the same time you lost your phone. Maybe try your friend's laptop? And then change your password after you buy a new phone? It's workable. Obviously have a few different wallets, some with more money, some with less, so you can use different ones depending on the risk of the situation.

Or maybe create a new wallet and have your wife send you the coins instantly. Lots of possibilities.

And as rare as you claim false positives to be, it happened to me on my last trip. Happens to me every time I buy something on a foreign website.

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