OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#351

Post by gverri » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 2:44 AM UTC

victorhooi wrote: post #331

shadytrees wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People, also, used to define marriage as being between two people of the same race. Let us dispense of this tangent once and for all: Marriage is a civil right. It is the cornerstone of this civil rights movement, as it was to the last one, and the one before that, and all the ones that haven't happened yet. The cry "marriage for all" is not politically correct; we would like it to become politically correct -- what…

Sorry, but the whole race versus gay marriage thing has been done to death, and proven patently false. Nobody is stopping gay people from being together. Nor, in many countries/states, are they stopped from claiming the same benefits (e.g. via civil unions). This is simply about them redefining marriage to encompass any two humans, rather than just a man and a woman. I'm not going to go into whether that's "right" or…

Nobody?! Uganda? Russia? India?

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/31/how-evangelicals-wo...

"Evangelicals took to Twitter and Facebook to threaten to stop sending money to their sponsored children unless World Vision reversed course."

All this over a word?! An etymology war... #not.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#352

Post by intslack » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 2:45 AM UTC

SimHacker wrote: post #342

intslack wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry that you feel I'm being an apologist for bigots, but I have no evidence to suggest that Eich is himself a homophobe. We all know about the donation, obviously, but that in and of itself is not evidence of his "anti-gay" stance. If your anecdote is true and he actually is homophobic, I'll be even more hurt. But I still believe that there's really no reason for Brendan, being the most qualified, to step down…

Welcome to the club of being even more hurt. A lot of people disagree with you, because they believe financially supporting Proposition 8 is prima facia evidence of homophobia, just as donating money to the KKK is evidence of racism. But you're performing logical backflips, and parroting implausible straw man arguments usually proffered by dyed in the wool homophobes to justify their hatred, without actually having a…

>because they believe financially supporting Proposition 8 is prima facia evidence of homophobia

And they're wrong.

>without actually having any knowledge of Brendan's beliefs

I'm going on Mozilla employee's reactions, people who actually interact with him on a day to day basis. No one else seems to pin him as an "unrepentant homophobic bigot" (as per your other comment) except you.

>Your "maybe he's against all marriages" argument has been shot down -- don't try it again.

I'm in favor of redefining marriage and abolishing all civil unions because they're fundamentally unequal. And no, it hasn't, we simply don't know what his opinions are.

Your demeanor in comments really doesn't lend any credibility to your anecdote compared to the experiences shared by Mozilla Co. employees.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#353

Post by mkr-hn » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 2:46 AM UTC

victorhooi wrote: post #334

gdilla wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except all marriages are civil marriages - and the government has to treat all equally. that is all. Your church, temple, or mosque can be as exclusionary and ignorant as they want to be. that's fine, and protected free speech. But the government shouldn't give rights to some and not all (inheritance, consent, tax breaks etc).

Well, no, that's the point. There are civil unions, and there are marriages - and if it was simply about "rights" and "benefits", then people wouldn't give a c*ap which group they were in. However, even though they have civil unions (in many countries/states), they also want to redefined marriage. I'm not saying that's wrong or right - that's an argument I won't go into here. However, to try to pretend that this is a…

You keep saying this throughout the thread. You are misinformed. Marriage and civil unions are legally different things with different rights, responsibilities, and scope.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#354

Post by gverri » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 2:48 AM UTC

victorhooi wrote: post #330

foolrush wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, as is often overlooked, this isn't purely a debate about one's personal ethics and morals; marriage extends into the legal domain, and brings with it a plethora of complex legal ramifications. So, in fact, preventing marriage does impact an individual's rights. I would also point out that “politically correct” is about as dismissive a term as can be found today. Cultural attitudes may shift, and at some poin…

Well, no, it doesn't. In many countries/states, civil unions are the norm for gay people, and have been for some time. However, the current debate from gay people seems to be that they want to re-use the "marriage" label, which has traditionally been for between a man and a woman. I'm not saying it's right simply because it's tradition - but trying to argue that it has been anything but between a man and a woman for…

Civil Unions don't grant the same benefits as Marriage does. So it's not the same thing.

There's no etymology war, you can keep the word "marriage", just give everyone equal rights to marry and have their marriage recognized everywhere.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#355

Post by intslack » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 2:51 AM UTC

mkr-hn wrote: post #353

victorhooi wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no, that's the point. There are civil unions, and there are marriages - and if it was simply about "rights" and "benefits", then people wouldn't give a c*ap which group they were in. However, even though they have civil unions (in many countries/states), they also want to redefined marriage. I'm not saying that's wrong or right - that's an argument I won't go into here. However, to try to pretend that this is a…

You keep saying this throughout the thread. You are misinformed. Marriage and civil unions are legally different things with different rights, responsibilities, and scope.

They are legally the same in Connecticut and other states. Not all, but in some. But it's not equal in the "institutional" sense so we should just redefine marriage in states instead of building civil unions with the same framework as marriages and have two seperate but equal legal frameworks.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#356

Post by mkr-hn » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 2:56 AM UTC

intslack wrote: post #355

mkr-hn wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep saying this throughout the thread. You are misinformed. Marriage and civil unions are legally different things with different rights, responsibilities, and scope.

They are legally the same in Connecticut and other states. Not all, but in some. But it's not equal in the "institutional" sense so we should just redefine marriage in states instead of building civil unions with the same framework as marriages and have two seperate but equal legal frameworks.

Fortunately, momentum is building for marriage equality here in Georgia. Maybe this state isn't so bad after all. The editor of the local small town paper even came out in support.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#357

Post by bluntly_said » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 3:01 AM UTC

hiddentao wrote: post #297

kevinpet wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking that marriage is by definition between a man and a woman is not the same as thinking there's anything wrong with being gay. You can't claim someone is oppressing someone's rights by participating in the public debate about what exactly those rights should be. I disagree with Eich, but I reserve my moral disapproval for those who seek to shame anyone holding an opinion different from that currently politicall…

Here's an idea. What if Eich had donated to a cause which stated the idea that marriage could only be between two white people. Sounds nonsensical but what if instead of it being based around sexual orientation, it was based around race? The idea of racial equality has been around a lot longer and is more generally accepted than gay marriage rights (which only recently have begun to gain wider acceptance) so I imagin…

The comparison to race still fails to make me think publicly denouncing a company in its whole because of the personal beliefs of one member is in any way justified.

People will never be homogeneous in their beliefs, and I think that's a good thing. But when you're unable to interact with another person in any way at all because of their private beliefs, you're being an idiot.

A person's beliefs do not define their contribution to society. Life has a lot of shades of grey, everyone has opinions that run counter to the current societal ideal. It's not ok to shun or denounce that person, all you're doing is spreading hate. It IS ok to speak out about what you believe. Do some good. Instead of getting angry about someone you've read about on the internet, go volunteer somewhere. Spread some love instead.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#358

Post by element4y » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 3:03 AM UTC

hkphooey wrote: post #226

scarmig wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposing gay marriage [1] is a sign of bigotry and hate, by that fact alone. It's akin to excusing white supremacists in the 1950's for segregating blacks and whites and underfunding black schools because their opinions were religiously motivated (and most claimed a religion as one of the reasons--children of Ham, and all that) and because they ignorantly believed blacks were inherently intellectually inferior. Nope,…

From a well-known gay British art critic, writer and broadcaster. Is he a hateful homophobic bigot too? Obviously he does not represent the whole gay community, but it does serve to highlight how the abusive language directed towards Brendan and the call for a boycott are a complete over-reaction. Why I will never be converted to gay marriage ...the recent institution of civil partnerships seemed to be the final nece…

This pattern of thought is not new as noted by another commenter but beyond that, it is dismissive. If, and a big if would be given should marriage be a truly sacred multi generational ceremony. It's not, it began with ownership of people and is presently accompanied by a farce of a concept that diamonds are actually worth anything.

If you could look beyond that joke of a concept you can see it's really about EQUAL rights, not about samesies.

To some the concept of marriage means something, to others it's a way to get insurance or better tax deals. This debate is about equal rights. period.

As a side note, the only real argument i've heard against same sex marriage was it opens the doors to lawsuits, because if you have the same rights you can be sued you when you infringe them. And that's what the true opponents of equal rights fear.

pps the only thing about the quote that makes any sense is it is wasted resources, this should not even be a debate.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#359

Post by marshray » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 3:10 AM UTC

gverri wrote: post #351

victorhooi wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but the whole race versus gay marriage thing has been done to death, and proven patently false. Nobody is stopping gay people from being together. Nor, in many countries/states, are they stopped from claiming the same benefits (e.g. via civil unions). This is simply about them redefining marriage to encompass any two humans, rather than just a man and a woman. I'm not going to go into whether that's "right" or…

Nobody?! Uganda? Russia? India? http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/31/how-evangelicals-wo... "Evangelicals took to Twitter and Facebook to threaten to stop sending money to their sponsored children unless World Vision reversed course." All this over a word?! An etymology war... #not.

YEAH! Mozilla and Uganda ... I get the two confused all the time!!!

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#360

Post by marshray » Tue, Apr 01, 2014, 3:21 AM UTC

DavidWoof wrote: post #234

sentenza wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. The guy is also the inventor of Javascript. Shouldn't everybody be boycotting that? I mean it has a lot more to do with him than Firefox does. After all, he's the CEO of Mozilla Corporation (not the Foundation), which is only indirectly connected to Firefox, but he _invented_ Javascript! What am I missing here?

You seem sincere, so here's an honest answer. What you're missing is the nature of the job of CEO, especially in Silicon Valley. It's not a job where you bury your head down and get the work done, a huge part of the job is being the public face of the company. The Mozilla Corp. has decided that their public face should be someone who is opposed to equal rights for gays. That's completely different than having a racis…

I wonder how many people making this "public face of the company" argument could name the current CEO of Netflix.