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OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

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Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#291

Post by a8000 »

scarmig wrote: post #237
intslack wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Opposing gay marriage is a sign of bigotry and hate, by that fact alone. No, it is not. One can actually have empathy with gays and believe that marriage can only be between a man and a woman. I don't agree with those beliefs, but I'm speaking from experience that there are many people who believe that marriage has a very religious connotation. Can you please cite a single interaction in which Brendan has looked dow…

When he donated money to remove a law in order to deny gay people their human rights. You can't just slap "but it's my religionnnnn" on something and call it a day. It's like you haven't bothered to read the rhetoric that right-wing politicians used in the segregated South or apartheid-era South Africa.

Marriage is not really a human right anyways, apart from the symbolic gesture the state grants priviledges like tax benefits, adoptions rights and so on. Typically the state has to have some kind of justification for granting priviledges in this case it was probably motivated by religion, but it could also be tied to potential child production / child care.

Ideally laws would be reformed in such a way that the priviledges granted today are tied to something other than you are a man and woman and want to marry. It could be just you are two or more people who want to marry. In my opinion things especially tax benefits should be tied to the fact that you are actually providing a service (like raising kids, your own or adopted, but maybe just caring for each other financially is enough).

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#292

Post by honksillet »

jrs99 wrote: post #38
honksillet wrote: post #6

This is petulant and abrasive. Eich's personal politic's is only tangentially related to OkCupid business and not at all related to Mozilla's business. Also it should be obvious that Eich != Mozilla. It is very off-putting to have a company bludgeon it's user with the personal politics of it's runners.

Agree. They should keep quiet, and just take it. Just sit there and don't say anything. Don't be another MLK Jr. and turn this into some kind of personal political thing. These fools would turn it into some kind of weird personal political fight if we castrate the next Turing. Hey, it's just a chemical castration. No need to make it personal. It's actually good for you.

You are talking crazy. Alan Turing is one of my personal heroes and what happened to him was appalling.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#294

Post by muglug »

hkphooey wrote: post #157
eaurouge wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say his beliefs are hateful? And, is a person's beliefs/opinion constant and permanent or do they change over time? Here's what Elton John had to say in 2008 (his views have since changed); from HuffPo [1]: "We have a civil partnership," he said, talking about he and longtime partner, David Furnish. "What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people o…

Also what about Brian Sewell, a well-known British art critic, writer and broadcaster? Can a gay person be a homophobe? "Why then do they and lesbians demand the right to marry? Indeed, how many of us have made that demand? One in 20? One in 10? Most of us... have not pleaded for gay marriage. But every minority has within it a core of single-issue politicians and protesters who are never satisfied and always ask for…

It's important to note that Sewell comes from a generation of gay people who not only had to hide who they loved from the public, but then saw many of their friends die from a terrible disease that the government did little to prevent. The idea that gay people should have a right to be married is, to many people of Sewell's age both gay and straight, a very modern notion.

It's quite possible that one might have found an octogenarian Alabaman black man in 60s saying the same sorts of things about the mixing of races.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#296

Post by cjfont »

Is this not a slap in the face of everyone else who has contributed to the Mozilla Foundation that is not in any way associated with Eich or his views? Seems that for some, a response of some kind is needed regardless of how irrational it may be.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#297

Post by hiddentao »

kevinpet wrote: post #238
webwright wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

Thinking that marriage is by definition between a man and a woman is not the same as thinking there's anything wrong with being gay. You can't claim someone is oppressing someone's rights by participating in the public debate about what exactly those rights should be. I disagree with Eich, but I reserve my moral disapproval for those who seek to shame anyone holding an opinion different from that currently politicall…

Here's an idea. What if Eich had donated to a cause which stated the idea that marriage could only be between two white people. Sounds nonsensical but what if instead of it being based around sexual orientation, it was based around race?

The idea of racial equality has been around a lot longer and is more generally accepted than gay marriage rights (which only recently have begun to gain wider acceptance) so I imagine more people would be on the “he should resign” side in such a case.

When I first heard about this issue I didn’t think it was a big deal as long as his personal views did not influence his professional behaviour and ethics. But as some people have pointed out, he is the public face of an organisation that touts openness and inclusiveness as values. Furthermore, if I was gay I’m sure I’d feel more strongly about this, in the same way that someone who is non-white (or in the marginalised race) would feel strongly if the issue was around race as I've described above.

Finally, to people calling for him to apologise….him coming out with an apology to pacify everyone wouldn’t mean that he has changed his mind. It could just mean him saying what he needs to say to be able to get on with things while still harbouring the same thoughts and ideas within. Ask any politician.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#298

Post by stefantalpalaru »

dang wrote: post #219
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"unthoughtful"? "toxic"? Those are what wikipedia would call "weasel words". If you have some rational criticism, spill it out and we'll deal with it like adults. Hiding your censorship under "obvious" labels is bad.

This isn't Wikipedia. We're happy to learn, but we're not going to import. I notice that this is the second time you've challenged me with personally charged language. If you have more to say, email would be better. Edited for clarity.

> Edited for clarity.

I prefer the original, overtly aggressive and unapologetically abusive version. At least with that we know where we stand.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#299

Post by a8000 »

scarmig wrote: post #244
hkphooey wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a well-known gay British art critic, writer and broadcaster. Is he a hateful homophobic bigot too? Obviously he does not represent the whole gay community, but it does serve to highlight how the abusive language directed towards Brendan and the call for a boycott are a complete over-reaction. Why I will never be converted to gay marriage ...the recent institution of civil partnerships seemed to be the final nece…

Zora Neale Hurston supported segregation. Would you argue that segregation wasn't racist?

In many countries what separates a Civil Union (that may in fact also be between Man and Woman) and Marriage are tax benefits an easy fix would be to just tie the tax benefits to something else, like the fact that you are raising children.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#300

Post by smithzvk »

I guess my question is, does using Firefox mean that you support Mozilla, much less the opinions of Mozilla's CEO? If I switch to IceWeasel, do I still support it? Is using Gecko the sin here? When did I sign on for supporting these beliefs. My wife and I don't eat at Chik-fil-a anymore due to their beliefs, but the financial support is clear there. Here I pick and chose from the things that Mozilla creates that I endorse and I never installed the bigot extension on Firefox.

This person probably deserves the ridicule, maybe he needs to step down, maybe we should all switch to IceWeasel to really show them (by the way, that would be a much more positive route to take as opposed to putting all our eggs in the webkit basket), but one of the nice things about Free Software is that you can have a reprehensible person in charge of it and there is something that you can do about it besides simply not using it.

I guess that is why this statement feels weird. It seems akin to finding out that the inventor of the hammer, all those millennia ago, had slaves, so you decide that from now on you are going to use screws and that you will try to get other people to turn their backs on hammers as well.

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