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OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

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Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#231

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

sliverstorm wrote: post #130
dmazin wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue I, and I think others, have with this appointment is what the appointment implies: in a world where many hateful people hold power, yet another hateful person should hold power (in, of all places, an organization seemingly rooted in progress).

But if we discriminate against him purely on the basis of his beliefs (and not his actions on the job), we are no better than he. (If his personal beliefs do pollute his work then do as you will, run the guy out of town on a rail if you must)

"you gotta be tolerant of the intolerant" is a really shitty argument.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#232

Post by zobzu »

eropple wrote: post #211
zobzu wrote: post #48

oh look , at okcupid we just found out a way to use the current news as advertising! i think such stuff despises more than eich's support for prop 8.

You have a history of general reprehensibility on this site, so I probably shouldn't bother to give you the attention you crave. Because we all know that your beef isn't with them doing this, but with people not tolerating hatred of gays . And women, but, you know, one at a time. That said, I want to stand up for a couple of my friends who work at OKCupid. They're excellent people and I don't believe the culture at O…

history wah? half my friends are gay. Many are women. One is my best friend.

I think that using the excuse of being a minority to enforce ridicule arguments is stupid - that's different.

Accusing people at random seems just as wrong.

--

In fact, this is an interesting point. I noticed that any "negative" comment towards reactions to this story generates very strong reactions from some people (including death messages). This doesn't happen with other topics.

What makes you entitled to think this is ok? (this is an honest question)

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#233

Post by webwright »

sentenza wrote: post #151
webwright wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

Wait. The guy is also the inventor of Javascript. Shouldn't everybody be boycotting that? I mean it has a lot more to do with him than Firefox does. After all, he's the CEO of Mozilla Corporation (not the Foundation), which is only indirectly connected to Firefox, but he _invented_ Javascript! What am I missing here?

A boycott is meant to inconvenience the target of the boycott. If your goal is to nudge the Mozilla Corp into action, Firefox downloads is really the way to do it, as that's pretty much their sole source of revenue.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#234

Post by DavidWoof »

sentenza wrote: post #151
webwright wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

Wait. The guy is also the inventor of Javascript. Shouldn't everybody be boycotting that? I mean it has a lot more to do with him than Firefox does. After all, he's the CEO of Mozilla Corporation (not the Foundation), which is only indirectly connected to Firefox, but he _invented_ Javascript! What am I missing here?

You seem sincere, so here's an honest answer.

What you're missing is the nature of the job of CEO, especially in Silicon Valley. It's not a job where you bury your head down and get the work done, a huge part of the job is being the public face of the company.

The Mozilla Corp. has decided that their public face should be someone who is opposed to equal rights for gays. That's completely different than having a racist working as a programmer or in the mail room or even as CTO.

Boycotting javascript would be silly. Nobody is trying to say that everything Eich has touched now has cooties and we should stay away from it. However, it's perfectly reasonable to ask what kind of company Mozilla wants to be when they decide they want Eich as their public representative.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#235

Post by MichaelDickens »

Omni5cience wrote: post #56
MichaelDickens wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit: this link works for everyone (it is provided in another submission): http://www.okcupid.com/home?mozilla_message=1 That message doesn't work for me. I think you have to be logged in.

Try http://www.okcupid.com/?mozilla_message=1

This link works for me. Thanks!

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#236

Post by zobzu »

omni wrote: post #160
zobzu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually stepping down might be worse than not, at this point. besides, people complaining about it are quite dumb: eich has been a major player in firefox since the birth of firefox. so basically, nothing has changed - him being ceo or not. If anything, this is triggered by people who want to hurt firefox, in any possible way. This includes but isn't limited to, competitors (Google Chrome, IE, etc.), disgruntled vol…

"besides, people complaining about it are quite dumb: eich has been a major player in firefox since the birth of firefox. so basically, nothing has changed - him being ceo or not." Except he's CEO now. The leader of the company. The public face that the company puts forward. The person that all the other employees are supposed to look up to. Other than that, nothing's changed.

if anything, mitchell is the face of the company, not the CEO. The CEO is the executive officer. Before that, he was CTO. Not exactly a nobody.

The board has final say on everything, and mitchell seems to be the most active board member. I also tend to personally align with her opinions, I think she's great.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#237

Post by scarmig »

intslack wrote: post #214
scarmig wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposing gay marriage [1] is a sign of bigotry and hate, by that fact alone. It's akin to excusing white supremacists in the 1950's for segregating blacks and whites and underfunding black schools because their opinions were religiously motivated (and most claimed a religion as one of the reasons--children of Ham, and all that) and because they ignorantly believed blacks were inherently intellectually inferior. Nope,…

>Opposing gay marriage is a sign of bigotry and hate, by that fact alone. No, it is not. One can actually have empathy with gays and believe that marriage can only be between a man and a woman. I don't agree with those beliefs, but I'm speaking from experience that there are many people who believe that marriage has a very religious connotation. Can you please cite a single interaction in which Brendan has looked dow…

When he donated money to remove a law in order to deny gay people their human rights.

You can't just slap "but it's my religionnnnn" on something and call it a day. It's like you haven't bothered to read the rhetoric that right-wing politicians used in the segregated South or apartheid-era South Africa.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#238

Post by kevinpet »

webwright wrote: post #113
gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

Thinking that marriage is by definition between a man and a woman is not the same as thinking there's anything wrong with being gay. You can't claim someone is oppressing someone's rights by participating in the public debate about what exactly those rights should be.

I disagree with Eich, but I reserve my moral disapproval for those who seek to shame anyone holding an opinion different from that currently politically correct.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#239

Post by ronaldx »

eaurouge wrote: post #136
dmazin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that Eich's beliefs are a deviation from a norm (whether they are or not is irrelevant). His beliefs are hateful. The reason for this particular message is because it is part of a greater campaign to show Mozilla that users and producers on the internet are not in support of Eich's appointment.

Why do you say his beliefs are hateful? And, is a person's beliefs/opinion constant and permanent or do they change over time? Here's what Elton John had to say in 2008 (his views have since changed); from HuffPo [1]: "We have a civil partnership," he said, talking about he and longtime partner, David Furnish. "What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people o…

This may benefit from some context:

- Civil Partnership was permitted in the UK from 2004.

At that time, it was felt by many gay community leaders that this was a great breakthrough and a legal equivalence to marriage represented equality for gay people in the eyes of the law. Until 2010, gay rights campaigners Stonewall UK declined to campaign for gay marriage.

Civil partnership was seen as a good way to introduce legal equality without wrangling with the church over the use of the word 'marriage'.

This seems to be what Elton John is saying: civil partnership is a great step, and legally what's needed without also dealing with the issue of the word "marriage" at the same time.

However, over time, the gay community made it clear that they felt that this equality-with-a-different-name is not real equality.

- Gay marriage has now been legal in the UK for the last three days.

Elton John was one of the first public names to announce his intention to marry, and the article linked is about his advocacy.

It's not really possible from this quote to say that Elton John was particularly against marriage, even if he didn't personally want to get married at that time. I respectfully suggest that it was the Huffington Post trying to create a story.

On the point about a person's beliefs changing over time, Brendan Eich is free to make a statement to clarify his reason for making a public donation and update us on his current beliefs, if he chooses. His previous statement on this issue expressed no sense of regret.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#240

Post by jrs99 »

smokinjoe wrote: post #207
jrs99 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think people can replace JavaScript simply because of Brendan Eich. I can see it happening easily.

How? I'm actually really curious how it could be done easily.

i didn't mean it would be done easily.

I meant that I could easily see it happening.

It would definitely be hard. I actually love JavaScript. But I could easily imagine someone who has something against Brendan Eich start their own browser without javascript. And I can imagine it becoming viral, too.

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