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OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

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Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#201

Post by vacri »

omni wrote: post #160
zobzu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually stepping down might be worse than not, at this point. besides, people complaining about it are quite dumb: eich has been a major player in firefox since the birth of firefox. so basically, nothing has changed - him being ceo or not. If anything, this is triggered by people who want to hurt firefox, in any possible way. This includes but isn't limited to, competitors (Google Chrome, IE, etc.), disgruntled vol…

"besides, people complaining about it are quite dumb: eich has been a major player in firefox since the birth of firefox. so basically, nothing has changed - him being ceo or not." Except he's CEO now. The leader of the company. The public face that the company puts forward. The person that all the other employees are supposed to look up to. Other than that, nothing's changed.

Previously he was CTO of the same tech company - not exactly a minor CxO position with few people looking to him.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#202

Post by septerr »

When I read the title of this post, I first thought 'Oh okCupid's website breaks in FF and instead of fixing the site, they are asking their users to switch to another browser'. Then the comments here completely threw me off. Took some digging to figure out what the real issue was.

The okcupid link in the title (at least on mobile) just goes to their login page, no message about ditching FF there.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#203

Post by tasty_freeze »

Let's pick a different hot button issue. Say Eich contributed to a pro or anti gun control measure. Hell, as far as I know, he has.

How many of you, who are as intensely interested in gun control/rights as people are over gay/anti-gay marriage rights, would be demanding that he step down? And if you say you would, there are hundreds of corporations actually in that position (either for or against) with whom you are probably doing business.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#204

Post by scarmig »

intslack wrote: post #156
webwright wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

More likely his (assumed) belief that marriage can only be between a man and a woman stems from ignorance and his religion instead of bigotry or hate. And while that doesn't negate the harm that his donation caused: please stop comparing him to racists. You don't know Brendan, I don't know Brendan, nobody in previous threads comparing him to fucking racists or the Nazis knows Brendan. It's disgusting, please stop. >S…

Opposing gay marriage [1] is a sign of bigotry and hate, by that fact alone. It's akin to excusing white supremacists in the 1950's for segregating blacks and whites and underfunding black schools because their opinions were religiously motivated (and most claimed a religion as one of the reasons--children of Ham, and all that) and because they ignorantly believed blacks were inherently intellectually inferior. Nope, no hate or bigotry at all there.

[1] With a sliver of a possible out if you support ending all legal recognition of marriage.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#205

Post by ScottBurson »

dmazin wrote: post #138
sliverstorm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if we discriminate against him purely on the basis of his beliefs (and not his actions on the job), we are no better than he. (If his personal beliefs do pollute his work then do as you will, run the guy out of town on a rail if you must)

I disagree. There are actions which should be applied to oppressors and not the oppressed. Publicly embarrassing bigots is necessary to show that such beliefs will not be socially accepted; public embarrassment of minority groups is hatred. Just a disclaimer: I fully support discrimination against bigots such as refusal of service.

But then you wind up feeding the narrative, which we've heard so much, that gay marriage opponents are the ones actually being oppressed here. I think that's mostly crap... except, perhaps, for cases like this one.

I'm not even sure what I think about it, but I can't reject silverstorm's point out of hand.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#206

Post by dotBen »

adamors wrote: post #102
dotBen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because while he may have invented Javascript, many people have contributed to it, so that's not really the same issue. We should assume there might be racists/biggots/etc working at Google on Chrome, at Apple on Safari and at Microsoft on Internet Explorer, too. That's not the point. The issue is with Mozilla placing him as their executive leader; the endorsement that makes and the message that sends to the…

> technical community & the wider world Hah, wider world. For most people, a browser is "the internet". They don't even care that it is made by a company. They certainly don't care about the CEO of this company who gave some money to some thing sometime in the past.

There are plenty of companies I boycot and avoid patronizing based on concerns I have with their owners, executive leadership or company's position on issues important to me.

I don't think that is that uncommon, actually.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#207

Post by smokinjoe »

jrs99 wrote: post #108
justinreeves wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something is to replace Javascript, it's going to be because of the language, not Brendan Eich.

I disagree. I think people can replace JavaScript simply because of Brendan Eich. I can see it happening easily.

How? I'm actually really curious how it could be done easily.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#208

Post by ronaldx »

hkphooey wrote: post #157
eaurouge wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say his beliefs are hateful? And, is a person's beliefs/opinion constant and permanent or do they change over time? Here's what Elton John had to say in 2008 (his views have since changed); from HuffPo [1]: "We have a civil partnership," he said, talking about he and longtime partner, David Furnish. "What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people o…

Also what about Brian Sewell, a well-known British art critic, writer and broadcaster? Can a gay person be a homophobe? "Why then do they and lesbians demand the right to marry? Indeed, how many of us have made that demand? One in 20? One in 10? Most of us... have not pleaded for gay marriage. But every minority has within it a core of single-issue politicians and protesters who are never satisfied and always ask for…

> Can a gay person be a homophobe?

I'm not sure if you're asking this question in seriousness, but... yes, gay people can be homophobic. A significant proportion of the population is gay, and every one is unique.

http://gayhomophobe.com/ focuses on anti-gay campaigners who have been caught in gay sex scandals. George Rekers is possibly the most familiar - dedicating his life to anti-gay campaigning while travelling with a personal rent boy.

The simplest polite thing to say about Brian Sewell (who you quote) is that he doesn't represent the wider gay community.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#209

Post by vacri »

firstOrder wrote: post #174
vacri wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that his beliefs in 2008 were echoed by a majority of Californian voters, it's hard to argue that they're a deviation from the norm.

Is Firefox a local project? It is a project used by the industrialized world, and by some of the non industrialized world. More than 47% of voters in California voted against this bill. Deep pocketed people like Eich were able to get that thin majority, by getting every hayseed in the central valley, north coast and Orange county out to the polls. A thin majority of one state in fifty of one country isn't much of a n…

When you're arguing for inclusion, you should avoid pejorative terms like 'hayseed'.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#210

Post by zorpner »

sliverstorm wrote: post #164
dmazin wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. There are actions which should be applied to oppressors and not the oppressed. Publicly embarrassing bigots is necessary to show that such beliefs will not be socially accepted; public embarrassment of minority groups is hatred. Just a disclaimer: I fully support discrimination against bigots such as refusal of service.

So it's ok only when done to the people you don't like.

If you're accusing him of "not liking" bigots, you're probably correct.

Why, specifically, is it okay for Eich to fund the oppression of homosexuals and not okay for people to say that they find that upsetting and therefore would prefer not to use or serve products he's associated with? What level would his bigotry have to ascend to before people were no longer obligated to use these products or, at least, not tell anyone they're not using them and why?

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