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OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

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Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#161

Post by agapos »

davidgerard wrote: post #36
spicyj wrote: post #31

Mozilla released a blog post on Saturday clearly stating: > Mozilla supports equality for all, including marriage equality for LGBT couples. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/03/29/mozilla-supports-lg... There's no evidence that Brendan Eich will bring any of his political views to the workplace; this continued backlash feels unwarranted.

They released it too late. If they had ANY clue, they'd have thought of this ahead of time. e.g. Brendan donates $2k or $5k to a gay charity requiring a public record (as the Prop 8 donation did) three months ago, someone notices two months ago, he can then stay as gnomic as he likes. Something like that. But, y’know, literally nobody in the upper echelons of Mozilla thought of this. That neither Eich or the board th…

"If they had ANY clue, they'd have thought of this ahead of time."

Maybe they were occupied finding a man with the necessary technical and leading capabilities, plus the experience and whatever else I may have forgot?

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#162

Post by lawl »

dang wrote: post #135
lawl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think submitting a separate story would be better so it gets proper attention and can be discussed without derailing this submission. Hmm, yeah I guess I just accused the mods of derailing.

I'm afraid you may have missed my point. I was deliberately intervening in this submission, because the thread sucked. Edit: it might be a bit better now. All: Unthoughtful comments should be downvoted. Have at it. Edit: I've mollified my wording slightly. Please downvote judiciously.

Sorry. I wasn't talking about this.

I was talking about the invitation to pitch in how to solve the general problem of hateful comments. Which I think shouldn't be discussed here, because it's not only a problem of this specific submission.

Sorry if I misunderstood this invitation.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#163

Post by ignostic »

pvnick wrote: post #104

Eich has made it clear, both through promises as well as actions, that he is not going to force his beliefs on Mozilla. Does OkCupid seriously wish harm upon an organization that employs hundreds of innocent individuals, most of whom likely hold different beliefs than Eich? An organization that works for the open web everyday and defends our privacy against actual harmful actions by criminal organizations? Intentiona…

> "Talk about forcing your beliefs on others."

What? How does OKC's use of free speech amount to "forcing" their beliefs on others?

> "OkCupid is shamelessly exploiting this situation for attention."

Care to back that up? Do you have the information necessary to say OKC is exploiting the situation for attention? Do you know their beliefs? Their intentions? Do you know their motivations and what they hope to accomplish? Do you actually know anything about anyone involved in what OKC did? If not, I suggest you stop making claims of fact where you are wholly ignorant of the truth.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#164

Post by sliverstorm »

dmazin wrote: post #138
sliverstorm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if we discriminate against him purely on the basis of his beliefs (and not his actions on the job), we are no better than he. (If his personal beliefs do pollute his work then do as you will, run the guy out of town on a rail if you must)

I disagree. There are actions which should be applied to oppressors and not the oppressed. Publicly embarrassing bigots is necessary to show that such beliefs will not be socially accepted; public embarrassment of minority groups is hatred. Just a disclaimer: I fully support discrimination against bigots such as refusal of service.

So it's ok only when done to the people you don't like.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#165

Post by duaneb »

gocarsno wrote: post #132
duaneb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because Uganda is "worse" than opposing gay marriage does not imply that opposing gay marriage is at all positive.

Which is not what I said or even implied. I said the situation in Uganda can't be considered "close" by any stretch of imagination to the situation in California until recently, before gay marriage was legalized. I also implied reaction should be proportionate to the degree of wrong. How the heck did you infer "opposing gay marriage is positive" from that?

> How the heck did you infer "opposing gay marriage is positive" from that?

You're a random person on the internet, I personally wouldn't rely on any implication to be clearly communicated. When in doubt, be explicit. This is even more important in threads (like these) where people run around with their heads on fire.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#166

Post by vacri »

tunesmith wrote: post #127
vacri wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OkCupid is for creating love. Those who seek to deny love and instead enforce misery, shame, and frustration are our enemies, and we wish them nothing but failure. There is an irony that an entity that declares it is for creating love is going around declaring enemies, and wishing them failure. This clearly undermines their own message, and shows them to be of a similar us vs them hateship. There are Sides to be take…

That's not really irony. It's generally okay to have a self-referential asterisk in rules like; Tolerance, except for intolerance. Free will, except where it impedes that of another. Peace & good will, except where you're about to punch me in the face. Etc. When people argue inconsistency in those cases, it's usually sophistry. That's not to defend okcupid's tactics in this case. I'm just saying that it's not really…

It's definitely an example of hypocrisy. To put it in prison terms, OKC is pursuing punishment rather than rehabilitation. If you're really about bringing people together and love, then you should be promoting trying to change peoples' minds to make them more inclusive, not blocking them altogether. Being hateful back at them simply reinforces their beliefs, and gives them a martyrdom story to pass on to like-minded people: "they say they're for love, but declared me an enemy and wished me failure". Making enemies of demographic groups divides people, pretty much by definition.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#167

Post by munificent »

pvnick wrote: post #128
gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

This is not about what's right. It's about attention, meaning user growth and ad revenue. OkCupid's leadership does not actually care about Eich's appointment.

Like most dichotomies, this one is false. It is more probably true that OkCupid cares about both attention and the underlying social issue.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#168

Post by hetman »

qdpb wrote: post #111
Todd wrote: post #26

Why doesn't OkCupid take a bolder stance and remove all JavaScript from their site? Brendan invented it. I guess that wouldn't be convenient. Better to ask users to inconvenience themselves. This really isn't fair to all of the people who have worked so hard to make Firefox what it is today.

Does he have any control over future development of javascript and how this future development will affect a wider community? I don't think he does. But he is the CEO of the company, and what the company does going forward does depend on him a lot. I think this is the key difference between boycotting the browser and boycotting the language.

And has he been directing Mozilla in a way that would reduce equality for all its users? Is this even remotely likely?

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#169

Post by fennecfoxen »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #90
fennecfoxen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn't OKCupid take a bolder stance and give a button to all their users when they sign in, asking, "Do you support marriage equality?" If they click "no", it deletes your account. I mean, as long as you've decided this is the sort of thing your business ought to be concerning itself with...

Although that situation you outline might seem pretty extreme, spare a thought for those who suffer far worse discrimination in real life, where it actually matters. Cf. the bed and breakfast owner who asks "Are you gay?" and if the answer's "yes", shuts their door on you.

I will spare a thought! However, I will request that we could consider whether this marginalization and inconvenience is in fact effectively remedied by seeking systematic vengeance upon all people who oppose government recognition of these marriages...

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#170

Post by stefantalpalaru »

dang wrote: post #60

We don't need more than one story about this on the front page, so I'm killing the others. Commenters: To state the obvious, this is an inflammatory topic. If you post a comment, make sure that it is a thoughtful one. Readers: If you see a comment that is not thoughtful, please downvote it. Most comments in this thread so far have not been, so you have your work cut out for you. In extreme cases, flag the comment. To…

"unthoughtful"? "toxic"? Those are what wikipedia would call "weasel words". If you have some rational criticism, spill it out and we'll deal with it like adults. Hiding your censorship under "obvious" labels is bad.
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