OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#151

Post by sentenza » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:11 PM UTC

webwright wrote: post #113

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

Wait. The guy is also the inventor of Javascript. Shouldn't everybody be boycotting that? I mean it has a lot more to do with him than Firefox does. After all, he's the CEO of Mozilla Corporation (not the Foundation), which is only indirectly connected to Firefox, but he _invented_ Javascript!

What am I missing here?

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#152

Post by computer » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:11 PM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #86

dictum wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I used OkCupid, I can't remember anything that would actually require JS to work. Real time updates (for instance, in IM) wouldn't be possible, but exchanging messages, looking at profiles and answering quiz questions is perfectly doable without JS. (I know I always sound like someone who hates JavaScript, but at least for the stuff OkC had two years ago, it's not really crucial. IIRC, you could browse user…

> Real time updates (for instance, in IM) wouldn't be possible If we're going back in time, you can get this via Flash.

Flash uses ActionScript, which is an implementation of ECMAScript, which was designed by Brandan Eich. ECMAScript is a standardization of Javascript.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#153

Post by stefantalpalaru » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:11 PM UTC

webwright wrote: post #113

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

This is not about gay rights. This is about the married couple privileges being extended to gay couples.

Comparing this to the right of all humans to be treated like humans regardless of their skin color is downright outrageous.

Before you accuse me of something, I'm against any interference in the institution of marriage by states or churches. I'm also against tax/property/inheritance/pension/insurance privileges for married couples.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#154

Post by tinalumfoil » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:12 PM UTC

webwright wrote: post #113

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

There's a pretty big difference between being forced into labor for the rest of your life and being separated from your family so that you can work for a large plantation owner who isn't afraid to whip, kill, torture or humiliate you and not being able to get a certificate saying you are legally obligated to someone.

What I'm excited for is the day when being anti-soda is no longer socially acceptable. There's already a movement against it and slavery was once socially acceptable so it has to happen, right?

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#155

Post by arjie » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:12 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

Exactly what I say, but then when I donate to Al Qaeda everyone acts like I'm the villain, not the people who jail me for just believing in something.

I don't actually donate to Al Qaeda, and they're not equivalent to Eich, but the opinion expressed in your comment is applicable to both.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#156

Post by intslack » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:12 PM UTC

webwright wrote: post #113

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

More likely his (assumed) belief that marriage can only be between a man and a woman stems from ignorance and his religion instead of bigotry or hate. And while that doesn't negate the harm that his donation caused: please stop comparing him to racists.

You don't know Brendan, I don't know Brendan, nobody in previous threads comparing him to fucking racists or the Nazis knows Brendan. It's disgusting, please stop.

>Should we be respectful for these often-arbitrary beliefs or should we try to make people/companies with these beliefs uncomfortable (but in kind/respectful way)? Honest question.

You should take the moral high ground and send him a personal communication detailing how his donation has caused harm.

No one's asking you to respect his belief, though, but this is just majorly unfair to everyone else who has contributed to Mozilla.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#157

Post by hkphooey » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:12 PM UTC

eaurouge wrote: post #136

dmazin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that Eich's beliefs are a deviation from a norm (whether they are or not is irrelevant). His beliefs are hateful. The reason for this particular message is because it is part of a greater campaign to show Mozilla that users and producers on the internet are not in support of Eich's appointment.

Why do you say his beliefs are hateful? And, is a person's beliefs/opinion constant and permanent or do they change over time? Here's what Elton John had to say in 2008 (his views have since changed); from HuffPo [1]: "We have a civil partnership," he said, talking about he and longtime partner, David Furnish. "What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people o…

Also what about Brian Sewell, a well-known British art critic, writer and broadcaster? Can a gay person be a homophobe?

"Why then do they and lesbians demand the right to marry? Indeed, how many of us have made that demand? One in 20? One in 10? Most of us... have not pleaded for gay marriage. But every minority has within it a core of single-issue politicians and protesters who are never satisfied and always ask for more, and homosexuals, both male and female, are no exception.

...

As the procreation of children is hardly the remit of the homosexual and I have never encountered one (other than a priest) who sought a remedy against fornication, and the civil partnership caters for the mutual society and comfort, why one earth have we had all this ballyhoo about gay marriage?

Since the institution of civil partnerships there has been no impediment to their celebration with a party as extravagant as any wedding, but not all homosexuals are so exhibitionist. Most of us are content with what we now have within the law, and are happy to respect the deeply-held belief of sincere, thoughtful and informed Christians for whom marriage is the one sacrament in which we cannot share.

We have wasted our resources on the wrong campaign – the battle still to be won is against prejudice, the most insidious of enemies."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10729717/Brian-Sewe...

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#158

Post by albedoa » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:13 PM UTC

eaurouge wrote: post #136

dmazin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that Eich's beliefs are a deviation from a norm (whether they are or not is irrelevant). His beliefs are hateful. The reason for this particular message is because it is part of a greater campaign to show Mozilla that users and producers on the internet are not in support of Eich's appointment.

Why do you say his beliefs are hateful? And, is a person's beliefs/opinion constant and permanent or do they change over time? Here's what Elton John had to say in 2008 (his views have since changed); from HuffPo [1]: "We have a civil partnership," he said, talking about he and longtime partner, David Furnish. "What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people o…

Elton John was criticizing a marketing decision made by advocates of gay rights. He wasn't actively donating money to suppress those rights.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#159

Post by jowiar » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:13 PM UTC

spicyj wrote: post #31

Mozilla released a blog post on Saturday clearly stating: > Mozilla supports equality for all, including marriage equality for LGBT couples. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/03/29/mozilla-supports-lg... There's no evidence that Brendan Eich will bring any of his political views to the workplace; this continued backlash feels unwarranted.

The problem I've seen (and continue to see) from Eich and Mozilla is that the apology is denial: "I'm not a bad person! See -- I'm doing all of these good things!"

Apologies don't work that way. The right apology is something like: "I try to be a good person, but sometimes I don't get it right. 5 years ago, I did something hurtful to many of you. I did it because of ... What I didn't realize then and do realize now is that ... Thank you for helping me, and to those of you who I made the world a worse place for in the past, I'm sorry, and I'll do what I can to make things better in the future."

I'm not convinced that Eich believes that he did the wrong thing in 2008 - that as far as I can tell, if he were to wind the clock back, the only reason he wouldn't write that check is the trouble that it's causing him now, and not because he's gained some understanding of things.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#160

Post by omni » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 11:14 PM UTC

zobzu wrote: post #57

ancarda wrote: post #10

I really think Eich is going to have to step down at some point. The backlash hasn't calmed down and Mozilla is going to risk losing more users over this. At some point you have to ask if it's really worth it. Does Eich bring more value to Mozilla that countless developers and users that are boycotting the software?

actually stepping down might be worse than not, at this point. besides, people complaining about it are quite dumb: eich has been a major player in firefox since the birth of firefox. so basically, nothing has changed - him being ceo or not. If anything, this is triggered by people who want to hurt firefox, in any possible way. This includes but isn't limited to, competitors (Google Chrome, IE, etc.), disgruntled vol…

"besides, people complaining about it are quite dumb: eich has been a major player in firefox since the birth of firefox. so basically, nothing has changed - him being ceo or not."

Except he's CEO now. The leader of the company. The public face that the company puts forward. The person that all the other employees are supposed to look up to.

Other than that, nothing's changed.