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Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

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Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#11
post #9

The view of this writer brings up something that sickens me about philanthropy and that's doing it just to get the recognition and attention of rather than giving because you actually want to help someone.

What evidence do you have about how common this is?

Well, most recently and evidently I went out with a girl who helped start a humanitarian organization and in doing so I obtained quite a bit of experience watching and interacting with her and her friends.

Other than that in general, I've observed many occasions where if given the choice between giving or not, the major factor in their decision was whether or not other people would know about it.

Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#12
post #4

Leander Kahney seems to think there's something unethical about building products, managing an organization, and benefiting from it. The resentful epithets he throws around (cutthroat capitalist, vengeful nerd, selfish business goals, greedy capitalist, obscene fortune) are shallow tropes and stereotypes. No one has any duty to participate in the ridiculous rock-star, celebutard culture Kahney endorses. The greatest…

Kahney wrote a book in 2008 called "Inside Steve's Brain". It was very complimentary toward Steve, presenting his leadership techniques positively. Good book, and not at all negative as this article might suggest.

Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#13
Why is the focus on money here? The impact of the technologies they create dwarfs any monetary contributions. What's the value of their technology on top of what the obvious sellable product is? That is, how much more valuable is their product to the user on top of what the obvious product would have been?

It affects some products more than others. Productivity tools have high leverage, as do protocols and standards, because they are means to ends. End-user products like food, music, sex (for fun, not reproduction), and housing tend to have little leverage because they are closer to the ends. That is, more of them increases wealth.

iPods are good because they let lots of people enjoy more music than before. However, it is probably on slightly better than the obvious product and in any case, the possible impact of a media player is limited.

UNIX (or HTTP or C) on the other hand is non-obvious and a fundamental tool impacting work higher up the value chain. These things have enormous impact on wealth because of the knock-on effects of the tools and they afford. Innovation and development is approximately exponential and, rarely mentioned, prone to get stuck in local maxima. Here be dragons. Would we have as powerful an Internet if it weren't for a few key UNIX design decisions? What would a Microsoft designed world-wide computer network look like?

Try this: how much time do you think people spend trying to align things in PowerPoint that could be made a snap with better tools (maybe 2007 fixes this)? Let's say 2 min per presentation. With an estimated (by Microsoft) 30 million presentations a day, of which say a tenth are newly created, that means 6 million minutes, or about 11.5 man years, are wasted. Every day. Because PowerPoint doesn't make alignment easy. Not to mention that it may limit people's ideas. What if other Microsoft products have shortcomings more severe than those in PowerPoint?

Microsoft products often strike me as worse than the obvious product, prospering because of lock-in/short-sightedness.

By giving his money away, I doubt Gates could ever make up for the value creation Microsoft has blocked. He would have to find something with enormous leverage that would otherwise not happen -- don't get your hopes up. Thus, though I hope he proves us wrong, Gates is down in my book as one of the bad guys. Things are looking better now, but we've lost years of exponential innovation. I bet Kurzweil is annoyed.

Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#14
post #8

The view of this writer brings up something that sickens me about philanthropy and that's doing it just to get the recognition and attention of rather than giving because you actually want to help someone.

Gates' early philanthropic donations were primarily to higher-ed institutions. Somewhere along the line he learned that that's among the most regressive, least effective forms of charity, and shifted his focus to the truly poor and needy. That convinced me that he was truly interested in helping others and not just looking for recognition, attention, or improving the MS brand.

"improving the MS brand."

Keep in mind he also has some investments in biotech too. Giving someone money in order to allow him to buy your products and prop up your market cap may be a very profitable form of charity ;-)

Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#15
One is an artist with lots of personal issues that sometimes show through his way of doing business (I won't forgive Apple for breaking my TV cable ;-) - http://www.dieblinkenlights.com/blog_en/i-really-want-to-lik...), the other is a spoiled kid (http://philip.greenspun.com/bg/) with a sense of entitlement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists) and a borderline psychopath white-collar criminal that thinks law does not apply to him (if you disagree, please watch his DoJ deposition at http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=56015) with delusions that trying hard to become a philanthropist will make people forget his past.

Do we really need to compare them?

Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#16
post #14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates' early philanthropic donations were primarily to higher-ed institutions. Somewhere along the line he learned that that's among the most regressive, least effective forms of charity, and shifted his focus to the truly poor and needy. That convinced me that he was truly interested in helping others and not just looking for recognition, attention, or improving the MS brand.

"improving the MS brand." Keep in mind he also has some investments in biotech too. Giving someone money in order to allow him to buy your products and prop up your market cap may be a very profitable form of charity ;-)

Voted down as what? "inconvenient"?

Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#17
Personally I don't base my opinions of someone on their public support of the things I support. I like Jobs because I like his products, I couldn't care less about Gates because I find his products sloppy and awkward to use. Why do we have to get into a bunch of 'well Gates gave more money to the poor!' discussions? Not even getting into the issue of Jobs being a very private guy in general -- why is this any of our business?

Re: Jobs vs. Gates: Who's the Star? (2006)

#18

The view of this writer brings up something that sickens me about philanthropy and that's doing it just to get the recognition and attention of rather than giving because you actually want to help someone.

This is silly, all it's saying is that if you're humble enough to donate anon, you're going to be vilified. I'm unbiased as far as windows/mac goes, Jobs does seem very orientated to his visions only, but I refuse to believe Jobs doesn't donate to charities, and I have no information to say he does or doesn't.

My grandmother loved to donate as anon0 to people, sending large lump sums to people in need, directly in the form of cash in their mailbox or otherwise delivered as a "gift" with no "from". I hold humble charity in the highest regard, and whenever I donate, I refuse to put my name to it to this day, as a gift given for recognition feels cheapened.

we didn't find out until after her death, my mother was normally her assistant in sending and getting it to the right places and she didn't disclose any of this until after her passing, in memory of her and to honor her.

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