New Zealand school tossed its playground rules • Hacker News Board

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#11

Post by timClicks » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:08 PM UTC

siliconc0w wrote: post #6

I can't see how the the same thing won't happen though - one kid suffers some form of awful permanent damage (or death) and then the rules and safer equipment come back. It seems like the wager the west has generally accepted is that we aren't willing to accept the the gains from 'risky' play compared with the small chance of tragedy.

Where there's less risk of being sued, the outcome of that wager is likely to be different.

Here in New Zealand, you can't sue for personal injury, each school sets its own rules via a parent-controlled school Board and parents have quite a bit of discretion about where their kids go to school. If a school has deficient processes when injuries occur, parents will walk.

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#12

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:10 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #9

siliconc0w wrote: post #6

I can't see how the the same thing won't happen though - one kid suffers some form of awful permanent damage (or death) and then the rules and safer equipment come back. It seems like the wager the west has generally accepted is that we aren't willing to accept the the gains from 'risky' play compared with the small chance of tragedy.

The problem in the west is law suits. If New Zeland judges throw out any attempts from parents suing the schools, the fun times can continue. All these rules didn't exist when I was a kid in the '80s... http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/165499/21_things_80s_kids...

[deleted]

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#13

Post by dools » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:15 PM UTC

jevinskie wrote: post #5

> “Of course a child is not allowed to kill another child,” Mr. McLachlan said. “One of the rules I said facetiously is kids aren’t allowed to hurt other people. But in fact they are. … If you hurt somebody in a game where you are playing hard, or a boxing match or a stone-throwing competition, for me it’s absolutely fine — as long as the other person was willing to get hurt.” This is a very interesting article but i…

I remember having boxing and wrestling matches in the playground at school (from very young up until the age of 17 when I finished) ... things like body hits only and slaps to the head and face. As long as no-one went psycho it was pretty good to get your energy out (and since there were always other boys standing around watching if someone did go psycho they were shut down pretty quickly so no-one ever got hurt badly).

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#14

Post by bitwize » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:22 PM UTC

When I was in elementary school, much of the playground was built out of old car, truck, and tractor tires. There were conventional swings and slides, but there was also a tractor-tire tower to defend, a couple of car-tire geodesic-sphere-like structures, and other such wonders but the jewel was TireTown, a fortress built out of tires with tire bridges connecting to two smaller structures. TireTown was easily two meters high, and an agile kid could easily climb onto the roof and slide down one of the provided poles.

All of this was done with materials to hand, not safety-certified foam and plastic, although many of the tires were glued fast together for greater structural support. Nobody batted an eyelash. Nobody complained. This was the 1980s, which I still think of as being not that long ago, but compared to today we had it much better off. Just to be certain, and doubtful that something as wonderful as TireTown would be permitted by today's standards, I checked the satellite images of my old elementary school.

All the tire structures -- completely gone. And the playground area seems a lot smaller than I remembered it...

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#15

Post by mattchamb » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:26 PM UTC

Before people say that this school will get sued, it is useful to know that this school is in New Zealand.

Because of the way our healthcare system works, we cannot sue for personal injury here [1].

>Because of the wide range of help available from ACC after an injury, you can’t sue for personal injury in New Zealand, except for exemplary damages. This applies to overseas tourists too.

[1] http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/overview-of-acc/introduction-...

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#16

Post by sigzero » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:27 PM UTC

mrottenkolber wrote: post #10

sigzero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had boxing matches in High School.

Any permanent injuries? This stuff is quite dangerous unless performed with disciplined caution. I would not want to observe kids boxing (ouside a boxing sports club). Hit the throat. Bad day.

Nope, we had all the gear necessary and instruction.

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#17

Post by te_chris » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:29 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #9

siliconc0w wrote: post #6

I can't see how the the same thing won't happen though - one kid suffers some form of awful permanent damage (or death) and then the rules and safer equipment come back. It seems like the wager the west has generally accepted is that we aren't willing to accept the the gains from 'risky' play compared with the small chance of tragedy.

The problem in the west is law suits. If New Zeland judges throw out any attempts from parents suing the schools, the fun times can continue. All these rules didn't exist when I was a kid in the '80s... http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/165499/21_things_80s_kids...

As others have said, we have ACC == no personal injury lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_Compensation_Corporat...

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#18

Post by vacri » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:35 PM UTC

contingencies wrote: post #4

I usually live an Asia and often tell local people that the great play equipment available to children there would be disallowed in parts of the west (eg. my native Australia) due to health and safety concerns, generally as a result of mandatory insurance and greedy insurance companies. No longer are swings and see-saws available! Instead, you get a padded piece of artificial plas-floor with a carefully rounded (so w…

Not just insurance, though that is a factor. Parents get more hysterical over injured kids than they used to. If a kid gets injured, it's more likely for the parents to raise a stink. In ye olde days if a child got injured at the playground, parents would deal with the injury. Nowadays there's more (in relative terms) that would demand what it going to be done and harass the relevant manager. Add in that media love such stories these days, whereas previously the prevailing opinion was "well duh, kids skin their knees when they play".

It doesn't take many such parents - you could have a hundred kids and only a couple of parents like this - and you too would be using this super-safe stuff. The other parents could be fine with skinned knees and bruises, but you may as well save your time dealing with the angry parents so you can do the rest of your job.

Disclaimer: I am not a parent

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#19

Post by forgottenpaswrd » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:41 PM UTC

Am I the only one that looking at what the kids are doing in the pictures consider it totally normal?

In Spain we used to do way more dangerous things than those.

And it was risky, one of our friends died in the river jumping over a slippery stone and hitting his neck with a stone while falling backwards. I have to say he was pretty nuts and was in constant danger everywhere.

Another friend is in wheelchair after jumping badly from a big 20 meters high rock to the Mediterranean sea. We all jumped the rock. It was funny, but you need to know what you are doing.

But those are two cases over hundreds of people I knew well over my life.

We learned to do bunny hops and do jumps and go downhill. Skiing over rocks outside official circuit.

You leaned early on how to manage risks and how to say no when your friends want you into doing stupid things(or you are not skilled enough for the task). I really appreciate those memories(and continue doing risky things like BASE jumping).

I have to say that my friends doing risky things now that we are adults never had significant problems. They became experts managing risk and some of them even teach it.

So in my opinion total freedom has its drawbacks and is not a pie in the Sky, but it is worth it.

Re: New Zealand school tossed its playground rules

#20

Post by bigfoot13442 » Sun, Mar 30, 2014, 10:50 PM UTC

mirsadm wrote: post #7

contingencies wrote: post #4

I usually live an Asia and often tell local people that the great play equipment available to children there would be disallowed in parts of the west (eg. my native Australia) due to health and safety concerns, generally as a result of mandatory insurance and greedy insurance companies. No longer are swings and see-saws available! Instead, you get a padded piece of artificial plas-floor with a carefully rounded (so w…

I'm from Australia as well. I lived in Canada for a while and we use to joke that when there was snow there'd be signs saying you can't play in the snow.

Canadian parent here. You are absolutely right and it's ridiculous. Kids are extremely sheltered these days and it's ruining them. I find the problem is that there always needs to be someone to blame. Well, sometimes kids just do things that get them hurt. It's part of growing up.

If you don't know what it feels like to fly down a ice covered hill on a piece of plastic, hit a jump, and run smack into another kid, you did not have a proper Canadian childhood.