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Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

lispcast.com

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Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#11

Post by ohwaitnvm »

dexen wrote: post #10

I can't agree with the `2. Don't use the mouse'. Unless Emacs' mouse support is completely broken (doubtful), mouse is only going to increase productiveness. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mouse_vs._keyboard/ind...

I can understand what you're saying, and I agree, but I think you miss the idea of abandoning the mouse. You're not doing it with intent to lose the marginal benefit of the mouse, rather, you need to give it up in order to become more efficient and familiar with the keybindings.

Thus, once you are no longer a beginner (the guide's target audience) you may graduate to keyboard+mouse. I don't use emacs or vi(m) or anything truly in line with them (textmate is my closest) but I have no doubt that someone who uses only the keyboard for three months and then reintroduces the mouse will show a greater capability with the tools than the same person spending the same time using both keyboard and mouse.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#12

Post by jrockway »

dexen wrote: post #10

I can't agree with the `2. Don't use the mouse'. Unless Emacs' mouse support is completely broken (doubtful), mouse is only going to increase productiveness. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mouse_vs._keyboard/ind...

Depends on what you are doing. If you want to kill a sexp, the keyboard is going to be faster. If you want to kill a random block of text that has no structure, then sure, the mouse is going to be faster.

Guess which programmers usually do.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#13

Post by jrockway »

kiba wrote: post #5
videophile wrote: post #4

Ok, I'm not a PC-nazi but I think someone needs to call the article out: This is generic claptrap ("use help"?! he, and it's pretty clear it's a he, could have at least looked at how hard emacs help is to use for beginners) interspersed with sexist pictures and commentary. It is offputting to many people, and I'd like to see my favorite editor associated with higher caliber tutorials.

I do not understand how these pictures are sexist.

Only men should be using computers, duh.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#14

Post by silentbicycle »

revertts wrote: post #7

I'm going to have to disagree with '6. Keep Your Keybindings Standard.' When I started with emacs, there were some bindings that would make my hands ache after a day of use, usually from the transition between difficult keybindings, not any one key combination in isolation. One of the first things I did was add in the ergoemacs bindings, and I never regretted it. It's not as if doing so made me suddenly forget what t…

I agree with you about the default keybindings (they're sadistic), but I think that people will have an easier time learning Emacs if they wait to start rebinding things until they're familiar with the conventions.* There are a lot of patterns in the way keybindings are defined for various major modes, for example, and rebinding everything to make it more like textmate or whatever obscures them. Also, it's a good idea to check if new bindings are replacing another highly useful command, particularly if one doesn't know how to access it otherwise.

Some of this probably matters less if using Emacs on other peoples' computers isn't an issue, though. (Same with using Dvorak or other layouts.)

* Perhaps around the time they start learning Elisp, rather than copying and modifying other peoples' config files. Nothing wrong with doing that, just, that comes much earlier.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#15

Post by aerique »

revertts wrote: post #7

I'm going to have to disagree with '6. Keep Your Keybindings Standard.' When I started with emacs, there were some bindings that would make my hands ache after a day of use, usually from the transition between difficult keybindings, not any one key combination in isolation. One of the first things I did was add in the ergoemacs bindings, and I never regretted it. It's not as if doing so made me suddenly forget what t…

Yeah, I was going to post this as well. If you use Emacs change your keybindings to whatever you're comfortable with. This isn't freakin' VI or an editor you use in a sysadmin / dead server environment: Emacs should be the editor you spend most of your life in as an IDE, for mail, news, writing documents, etc.

Also put your keybindings.el somewhere online so you can load it up when you're in a new environment.

If you use Bash some of the handy default Emacs bindings will be known to you already.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#16

Post by silentbicycle »

dexen wrote: post #10

I can't agree with the `2. Don't use the mouse'. Unless Emacs' mouse support is completely broken (doubtful), mouse is only going to increase productiveness. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mouse_vs._keyboard/ind...

I have an immediate, almost visceral disagreement with the suggestion that a mouse is more efficient, but I may be wrong. For sake of argument: I think the "just pointing vs. using the keyboard and getting more thought involved about structure disrupts the sense of time" argument may have something to it. Still, using a keyboard well counterbalances this by being able to take advantage of greater structure - I very frequently use elaborate keyboard macros, for example, and the mouse doesn't have any clear way to say, "Ok, the thing I just did, apply that in a batch to the rest of those that look like a C function prototype." The mouse is more immediate, but you can do more powerful manipulation with the keyboard if you know the program's keyboard shortcuts, etc. (That's not necessarily a good trade-off for many kinds of programs, but for a text editor / IDE, it's probably worthwhile.)

While there have been some attempts to do that with mice (such as mouse gestures), by design, mice are about position, changes of position, with a few buttons as flags. There aren't enough distinctive signals.

Also: The Emacs mouse support is not great. It probably hasn't been a high priority.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#17

Post by ljlolel »

r00k wrote: post #2

This is a great article for users of ANY editor. I'm a vim user and got a lot out of it. Even more, many of these tips are abstract enough to be applicable to users of almost any complicated software tool, particularly ones used for hours a day.

You're right. The article is good, and reminds me of some very good tips given by the creator of VIM (Bram Moolenaar) in a Google Tech Talk:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2538831956647446078

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#18

Post by le_dominator »

videophile wrote: post #4

Ok, I'm not a PC-nazi but I think someone needs to call the article out: This is generic claptrap ("use help"?! he, and it's pretty clear it's a he, could have at least looked at how hard emacs help is to use for beginners) interspersed with sexist pictures and commentary. It is offputting to many people, and I'd like to see my favorite editor associated with higher caliber tutorials.

I've tried to get into emacs and vi but neither of them "feel right". Generally it seems like these editors take a particularly geeky sort of personality to get into in the first place, which is awesome. The nature of emacs isn't exactly user-friendly, so someone moving towards it would already be adventurous enough to parse the help files (and has probably read a fair share of man pages as well... blegh).

As for the images and title of the article: what could have been (very often times these sorts of pieces ARE) a very drone-like, dry sack of shit for a paper that only someone with a robotic policeman's mentality could enjoy, I found to be humorous and filled with life.

Will I be using emacs anytime soon? Probably not but it's encouraging to see that there are cool, funny, HUMAN community members out there who want to help get people excited and productive with something they enjoy.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#19

Post by bkudria »

revertts wrote: post #7

I'm going to have to disagree with '6. Keep Your Keybindings Standard.' When I started with emacs, there were some bindings that would make my hands ache after a day of use, usually from the transition between difficult keybindings, not any one key combination in isolation. One of the first things I did was add in the ergoemacs bindings, and I never regretted it. It's not as if doing so made me suddenly forget what t…

I agree with this - I customize all my keybindings if they are two arcane or uncomfortable. Combining this with a fanatical preference to always use my own computers (why wouldn't I? - I spent so much time customizing it!) makes me efficient and productive.

Re: Tips for the aspiring Emacs playboy

#20

Post by jimbokun »

jrockway wrote: post #12
dexen wrote: post #10

I can't agree with the `2. Don't use the mouse'. Unless Emacs' mouse support is completely broken (doubtful), mouse is only going to increase productiveness. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mouse_vs._keyboard/ind...

Depends on what you are doing. If you want to kill a sexp, the keyboard is going to be faster. If you want to kill a random block of text that has no structure, then sure, the mouse is going to be faster. Guess which programmers usually do.

If you're programming Perl, then it's going to be "kill a random block of text that has no structure."

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

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