Officer Kaur, should you read this: thank you for doing your job, for regularly exposing yourself to great risk in the line of duty, and for carrying on in spite of interactions you must endure with all manner of bozos (including, as we are now aware, over-privileged, self-righteous, know-it-alls).
Good Samaritan Backfire
81–90 of 137 posts
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#82> She turned to me and abruptly said that I was not needed as a witness and should leave immediately. "I then walked home." should have been the next line, and I'm fairly sure the author knows it. That doesn't excuse what the officers did, but it's not "being a good Samaritan" that backfired. Being nosy is the part that didn't end well. I'm not even sure the use of force wasn't justified - even in this immensely bias…
> "I then walked home." should have been the next line Unless it's against some kind of law for someone to observe police, you should know better than that. And seeing the way these animals acted, I'd say being concerned for the welfare of the downed biker is a perfectly legitimate reaction. > Being nosy is the part that didn't end well. Not illegal, and certainly not worth violent treatment and solitary confinement.…
>Unless it's against some kind of law for someone to observe police, you should know better than that.
What isn't against the law?
This probably doesn't apply exactly, but there are plenty of laws about "disobeying lawful orders of a peace officer".
Here's an example (it may not apply in these case, I dunno, IANAL):
> It is unlawful to willfully fail or refuse to comply with a lawful order, signal, or direction of a peace officer[...] in uniform [...] or to refuse to submit to a lawful inspection pursuant to this code.
CAL. VEH. CODE § 2800
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
So when he says "that doesn't excuse what the officers did" you think he's excusing their behavior?
> You can't do that and expect to not get physically removed. This is an excuse/rationalization.
Yes, physically removed from the immediate situation which is treating an accident victim and the first responders don't want to figure out whether the dumb white kid who keeps sticking around is an off-duty EMT.
He absolutely should have been physically removed from that particular situation since he wasn't leaving on his own.
This doesn't mean he should have had his hands stepped on or been put in solitary to teach him a lesson.
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#84> She turned to me and abruptly said that I was not needed as a witness and should leave immediately. "I then walked home." should have been the next line, and I'm fairly sure the author knows it. That doesn't excuse what the officers did, but it's not "being a good Samaritan" that backfired. Being nosy is the part that didn't end well. I'm not even sure the use of force wasn't justified - even in this immensely bias…
I've witnessed two horrific wrecks and been a witness for the cops one of those times. There's a time and a place for projecting your importance as an individual, but assisting someone else in an accident is not one such time. Do what you can until the authorities arrive and be helpful and respectful, and for fuck's sake, follow directions. Obviously the cops should have handled the situation better, but the mature r…
So, in effect the correct response for seeing someone you happen to know get hurt in the US is "don't give a toss". As if caring for someone was a crime in itself?
I am left speechless.
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#85> She turned to me and abruptly said that I was not needed as a witness and should leave immediately. "I then walked home." should have been the next line, and I'm fairly sure the author knows it. That doesn't excuse what the officers did, but it's not "being a good Samaritan" that backfired. Being nosy is the part that didn't end well. I'm not even sure the use of force wasn't justified - even in this immensely bias…
Thank you for saying this. I don't think the author necessarily meant harm, but by constantly questioning and trying to take control of the situation ("Is that protocol", rolling over after being placed on his stomache, etc.) he was digging himself deeper and deeper in a hole. It is also hard to take the article at face value. Literally every other sentence screams of hyperbole. Basically, he got arrested and had to…
In the 911 call audio, he states that the accident victims asked him to call 911. In a situation like that, I'd say it's proper to call 911.
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#86The HN lens has certainly been showing the US police force in a bad light over the last year or so. What are the origins of this strange behaviour? Why is force regularly used against people that verbally query the police? Even the army is trained to use dialogue where possible. It does sound like cameras will help but surely good and regular training programs should encourage good engagement with citizens.
It would seem that training programs may help. After all, people respond better to meaningful requests than to arbitrary orders.
Something like "Sir, I'm going to need you to move to the other side of the street while we ascertain the situation." may work better than "Move to the other side of the street.".
But some of it is unavoidable. Americans seem to live with a siege mentality that I found uncommon in other developed nations (except the UK to a lesser degree). The police reflect this mentality with a constant fear that the people they're talking to will resort to violence. Of course, it is somewhat justified in their case because of the relative lack of safety in American cities in comparison to other developed nations (a homicide rate comparable to India, for instance).
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#87Sadly, I have many friends with similar stories from police departments in different places. I attribute the officer's behavior to constantly being surrounded by violence. If everyday, most people around you are violent unreasonable delinquents that want to hurt you, then you start developing personality characteristics to compensate and survive that environment. Add to this the types of personalities that are attrac…
> attribute the officer's behavior to constantly being surrounded by violence. If everyday, most people around you are violent unreasonable delinquents that want to hurt you, then you start developing personality characteristics to compensate and survive that environment As I get older I wonder if there are certain jobs that everyone in society should cycle though, because they can be soul-crushing to do them long te…
I find it interesting that the Ancient Greeks thought that "decision-maker" was one of these jobs. Their lottery-based election system wasn't intended to be representative of the whims of the people, but rather to protect their decision-makers from the inevitable "moral fatigue" that comes with being made to choose with no clear best option, while being lobbied at by groups that are willing to pay you to say this or that option is best.
I wonder about this in the modern day: if everyone who ran a country was made to step down before their idealism was shattered--and if they didn't have to play politics to get there in the first place[1]--what kind of structures and rules would result?
Or: what would a software company be like if every "journeyman"-level team member took rotation as the team's manager, and knew that whatever pain they put on the shoulders of others, those others would inevitably get their turn to be in charge?
---
[1] I think the "not having to play politics to get there" bit might actually be what the neoreactionaries are talking about when they say monarchies work better that democracies: inheriting the throne by divine right means you don't have to lose your faith in humanity to get there. The Greek lottery system is basically the same thing, but with an artificial "line of succession" controlled by time rather than death.
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
"What are the origins of this strange behaviour?" It's not strange behavior. It's just that wealthy, white people are discovering what poor people and minorities have known for a long time: the police are not their friend, are not accountable to them, and are prone to violent overreaction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
>> are prone to violent overreaction. That's not true of every country though, it's certainly not the case in the UK. Here the police do act as your friends, they make a lot of effort to talk to the general public, both on the beat and at events. Certainly every encounter I've had with the police has been positive, even when I've been in the wrong (speeding or whatever). Police can be your friend, they can be account…
Stephen Lawrence would probably disagree with you.
The basic upshot of this story is to keep your contact with the Police brief, friendly and say no more than you need to.
The Police have been doing this to black people, gay people and other minorities for years, it's actually quite ironic that the Stonewall riots happened in San Fran too.
All that's happened this time is a well off, straight, white chap has realised just how hard life gets when you're treated as a minority.
I hope he gets his day in court and if the story is true they will sort the copper out and pay some compensation to him.
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#89This was posted previously and drew a mountain (793) of comments [0], including mine [1]. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7233730 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7235079
Does hacker news not flag/block duplicate posts urls. Especially when first one was clearly recognized?
The URLs are different.
In addition, HN intentionally allows duplicates after a certain time period -- I think it's 30 days. The idea is that the same information can become interesting and relevant again, either because of new circumstances [0], or to a new audience, or to an audience for which it has fallen out of memory.
(I leave it to the reader to determine whether this article has passed the "interesting and relevant again" threshold.)
[0] the best example I can think of: some of the things aaronsw posted to HN prior to his suicide became front page HN submissions just after. New information changed our perspective on his writings.
Re: Good Samaritan Backfire
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've witnessed two horrific wrecks and been a witness for the cops one of those times. There's a time and a place for projecting your importance as an individual, but assisting someone else in an accident is not one such time. Do what you can until the authorities arrive and be helpful and respectful, and for fuck's sake, follow directions. Obviously the cops should have handled the situation better, but the mature r…
So, in effect the correct response for seeing someone you happen to know get hurt in the US is "don't give a toss" . As if caring for someone was a crime in itself? I am left speechless.
No, the correct response is to help in an appropriate way, assisting until emergency response arrives, and then walk away.