Live data from Hacker News

A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

blog.eat24hours.com

51–60 of 107 posts

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#51
This is why Facebook is buying other companies because people are migrating away from Facebook.

One flaw Facebook has, when everyone's been on it for years they collect hundreds of friends from random old parts of their life. This waters down the experience because random people you barely know posting all the time turns your feed into something less interesting.

Toss in more ads combined with old acquaintances, and distant family members and you have a spammy feed.

Plus advertisers are mad because they invested in broadening their reach only to have it taken away from them unless they pay to promote.

A new social network is a fresh social network, void of your parent's family friends and clothing companies you no longer care about.

Facebook is myspace all over again.

The most telling decline stat, my older sister who is a soccer mom and was obsessed with Facebook for years recently told me, "we don't really go on Facebook anymore, we use instagram." uh-oh, it's the non-technical family member indicator. She was the last one of us to get a smartphone too.

That's why Facebook is buying other internet properties. Because their's is on the decline with actual engaged users, their stats might show new users joining quickly, those are probably bots, spammers, and foreigners. Facebook's future is a universal login tool and a place to see you're great aunt's inspiration quote spam.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I just learned about this today. What's the point of having a Facebook page then? Sounds like a gigantic waste of time.

Well you can pay to promote a post so it will have a higher reach. Businesses should be more appreciative of the fact that 5-10% reach for free is far more free reach than you will get with TV, radio, Google ads, or anything else short of putting flyers on telephone poles.

Well, no. I disagree with what you're saying. If I create a page for my business and share coupons and stuff, people are free to come like my page. That means they want to see more of my stuff voluntarily.

Why is Facebook extorting money from the business to allow users to see what they want to see?

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#53
Honestly I still don't get the hubbub over this algorithm change by Facebook. It's a scaling issue Facebook is attempting to solve, in a dramatically different (and IMHO superior) way than Twitter.

On both networks, every time you look at your feed you'll only look at the top X items. On Twitter, that'll just be the X most recent items. On Facebook, those X items are picked algorithmically based on the degree of engagement. The latter seems 1000x better and more intelligent than Twitter, even though it technically means not every post I'm subscribed to will make it into my feed.

As people spend more and more years on Facebook, we naturally accumulate more friends and pages (personally around 1200 friends and 200 pages). Thus, we're subscribed to more content. Far too much to reasonably make it into our feed. Given that X is fixed, the percentage of any particular source's posts which will make it into X should decline. It seems totally reasonable that which posts make it in are dictated by how much engagement those posts had.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#54
Well that's funny brands are complaining Facebook is selling out. That's like Coca-Cola complaining that the Super Bowl is too commercial. When I joined The Facebook it was for me and my college classmates. There was no such thing as liking a brand (and maybe not even liking at all). I remember most of my friends being surprised when after liking a brand you were inundated with spam. I guess after people obsessively liked things for years, and added every possible friend, the only thing left is to pay for news feed placement.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#55
post #2

Every day that goes by I am more convinced that the Twitter stream is the best way to communicate, as a brand and as a consumer. On Twitter, as in Facebook, I follow/like whatever brands I find interesting, engaging and resonate with my believes/interests. If I see that a brand does/say something I don't like, I simply unfollow/unlike. What Facebook is doing is (over)engineering how my relationship with brands/people…

Why do you want to engage with brands? I don't mean that to be antagonistic, I just don't have much understanding of that particular thing.

Aside from the reasons everyone else listed, I've used it customer support too. I've reached out to bands to ask last minute questions about their shows and actually have a better response rate with getting in touch with AT&T over Twitter than via email or sometimes phone.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#56
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but you didn't point out the other obvious thing that some people aren't getting: it takes effort to properly post things on Facebook. Add that to only 1-2% of your hard-won subscribers are actually seeing it and it makes it really not worth it.

Has anyone really looked at their Facebook page? Their engagement is low for a good reason - they simply aren't good at posting on Facebook. Go look at their page and tell me: if you were in charge of Facebook's algorithm, would you put that stuff on every person's feed without charging a bunch of money??? I'm by no means an expert, but I know that their posts aren't exactly making me interested in ordering food or t…

It doesn't matter the page. Facebook itself is purposely turning the algorithm down to weight page posts much less strongly than they weight individual posts. It's Facebook that's pushing it down to 1-2% and has been dialing it back consistently for the last 4 months or so. That 1-2% metric isn't based on people upset about their unpopular pages, it's from inside Facebook itself.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You follow a band you like because you want to know about their upcoming performances and new music. You follow an artist you like to see new stuff they're working on and when they post it online. You follow your favorite family owned restaurant to see what specials they have and when they're doing a wine tasting. You follow your favorite local bar to find out when trivia night is. There are a ton of reasons to follo…

To be fair, half the time people sign up for purely symbolic reasons, or to participate in a "like us on Facebook to win.." competition and not necessarily because they want daily ads for $brand served to them in between their friends' baby pics and obscure links posted by some guy they once met at an airport. If you really want regular updates from a vendor you sign up to their mailing list...

The only things I follow on Facebook are things I actually want to see on Facebook: 2 friend's bands, a watchmaker I like, a casting agency to let a couple friends know when something fits for them, etc. I don't have any 'like us to win' or symbolic/guilt likes.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#58

Honestly I still don't get the hubbub over this algorithm change by Facebook. It's a scaling issue Facebook is attempting to solve, in a dramatically different (and IMHO superior) way than Twitter. On both networks, every time you look at your feed you'll only look at the top X items. On Twitter, that'll just be the X most recent items. On Facebook, those X items are picked algorithmically based on the degree of enga…

No. Just no. Like many other small businesses, I paid thousands of dollars to Facebook for ads to create fan pages. People who were interested in what I was doing became fans (I had about 4000 in all). There was never any indication from Facebook that they would make it increasingly difficult to reach those people, and those fans were never told that they would not see my posts. Due to changes in their algorithm I watched the views for my posts drop from 1200 to less than 10. Then I was told I had to pay to reach my own fans. Businesses like ours helped grow Facebook by building fan pages but Facebook betrayed us and, more importantly, betrayed our fans. It's sick.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, half the time people sign up for purely symbolic reasons, or to participate in a "like us on Facebook to win.." competition and not necessarily because they want daily ads for $brand served to them in between their friends' baby pics and obscure links posted by some guy they once met at an airport. If you really want regular updates from a vendor you sign up to their mailing list...

> "If you really want regular updates from a vendor you sign up to their mailing list..." Or you follow them on social media because you use it more regularly than you use e-mail, or you find it more convenient.

But the Facebook news feed has never been a reliable delivery mechanism for updates you actually want to receive, because there's always been a huge volume of content with imperfect filters in place; if you really want to check on a brand you either go direct to their Facebook page which is entirely unaffected by filter algorithms or follow them on Twitter or by email. Users who only ever saw a fraction of the brand communications in their main feed anyway aren't particularly upset by changes in the filter that mean they see an even smaller percentage (if they get more friend updates instead they might even see it as a net win). Brands whose free advertising reaches 1-2% of eyeballs rather than 10-20% of the ones upset here, as with the Gmail "promotions" tab.

Eat24's marketing team aren't stupid: they know this which is why you don't get coupon offers on Facebook, you get meme graphics, jokes about food and pictures of pizza. You get coupon offers by email without the jokes or on Twitter with them.

Edit: disagreement by downvoting is particularly lame when it comes without an explanation of why I'm supposedly wrong. You don't see everything that every person or brand has posted in your newsfeed, haven't done for a long time, and in practice wouldn't do without a lot of scrolling even if they didn't filter at all. Whether Facebook's intent in filtering Pages posts to your feed more aggressively than Friend posts to your feed is purely commercial, purely driven by user engagement metrics or something in between, it's hardly a new development or something that only applies to brands.

Re: A Breakup Letter to Facebook from Eat24

#60

Honestly I still don't get the hubbub over this algorithm change by Facebook. It's a scaling issue Facebook is attempting to solve, in a dramatically different (and IMHO superior) way than Twitter. On both networks, every time you look at your feed you'll only look at the top X items. On Twitter, that'll just be the X most recent items. On Facebook, those X items are picked algorithmically based on the degree of enga…

No. Just no. Like many other small businesses, I paid thousands of dollars to Facebook for ads to create fan pages. People who were interested in what I was doing became fans (I had about 4000 in all). There was never any indication from Facebook that they would make it increasingly difficult to reach those people, and those fans were never told that they would not see my posts. Due to changes in their algorithm I wa…

Instead of resorting to emotion, can you explain a compelling alternative for how Facebook could actually solve this?

Yes, you have 4000 fans. But I'm 99% sure you're not the only page they like. They probably like many other pages, and also have many other friends (2 numbers that increase over time). Do you not see how it's literally impossible for every post I'm subscribed to reach me?

This is purely a problem of scale. Most of my friends don't see my updates, because they also have many other friends. But my mom sees every single update I have because I'm her only Facebook friend.

Perhaps it's annoying/confusing that Facebook gave you the option to monetarily combat the effects of a growing network. But organic growth also still works.

Post reply on HN