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Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

bhorowitz.com

41–50 of 56 posts

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#41
This provides a lot of insight into how executives think. Employees aren't people, just pawns to be traded and weighed against the value of their own friendships and animosities. It's pretty disgusting, but not surprising.

What I like about the new Silicon Valley elite is that those asshats are too socially gauche to realize that their attitudes are considered completely unacceptable by, well, everyone else. It's really fun to watch them humiliate themselves in Valleywag.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#42

This article was written just a few months after the Justice Department in late 2010 announced its agreement with Adobe, Apple, Google, Intel, Intuit and Pixar regarding their anticompetitive practices. It is clearly a reaction to that agreement and its purpose is to lay out an argument that can be used to maintain plausible deniability regarding anticompetitive agreements by arguing that these activities are just fr…

It's not this post that's terribly wrong, but the widespread fallacy of equivalence between tiny companies and large corporations. It's not inconsistent to think it reasonable for small startups to avoid hiring each other's employees, yet that scaling this up to a significant part of the labor market is problematic.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#43
Most American's sign an at-will employment contract, meaning the employer can terminate you without reason whenever they want. Given that, why would you give the company any more loyalty than they are giving you? The only reason I can think of is money. i.e a financial incentive is in place for not leaving. In accountancy for example I know a guy who was given 1 year salary for leaving his company. His domain knowledge being so valuable to a competitor it was better to pay him for a year to sit at home than have him work for them.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#44
> It is important to note that just about all of these kinds of policies violate the Right to Work laws in California. Specifically, if you block a hire based on this kind of policy and the employee loses their job and cannot find work, your company is liable for his wages. As a result, the business relationship with the other company must be extremely important for you to employ any kind of “hands off” policy.

I think this is an interesting aspect about business reasoning that a lot of people don't understand. Even though another comment here points out this isn't correct. If something is illegal and carries a risk of large fines or a large civil judgement, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it necessarily. It just means that you have to weigh that potential cost against the benefits of doing it. If the benefits are greater, you go ahead and pay the fine or the litigation as a cost of doing business.

You don't change the way companies operate by going on about whether something is right or wrong. You have to introduce a cost larger than any potential benefit. If not hiring person X costs you a couple hundred thousand dollars in a civil judgement, but helps you keep a business partnership that's worth hundreds of millions in revenue, you'd have to be crazy to go ahead and hire someone from a business partner in those circumstances.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#45
post #8

The similarities between this post and the actions that Google and Apple took and are now being investigated for are striking. At a small scale, it's just "good business" not to poach. At a large scale it's "evil" and illegal. Seems rather arbitrary to me.

There is a difference between poaching someone from some company and hiring someone from that same company who happens to apply to yours.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#46
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about colluding, it's just that the new CEO is bound to not hire you out of loyalty to his/her friend. Social laws and laws on the books don't always line up well.

col·lude (kə-lo̅o̅d′) intr.v. col·lud·ed, col·lud·ing, col·ludes To act together secretly to achieve a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose; conspire. -- Seems like colluding to me. Just like in the Google/Apple/Adobe case. It doesn't matter if it's done out of friendship or fear of upsetting almighty Steve Jobs.

If his CEO friend didn't know he was doing this, they would not be acting together - the friend would not be performing any action at all. But if they communicated with each other and agreed to act this way (like Apple and Google did), then it would be collusion.

But even if it wasn't outright collusion, it could still be ethically questionable to limit another person's opportunities just because you're afraid of losing someone's friendship.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#47
post #26
post #17

What a bizarre kind of possessiveness. Companies don't own their employees. Slavery is supposed to have ended quite some time ago (yes, I know it still exists). If you want to hire someone, hire them. If an employee leaves, let them leave. No hard feelings. If you really don't want them to leave, offer them more. Preferably do that before they think about leaving. This sort of unfair limitations on employee's employa…

I feel like that is not the point though. The analogy he made was fairly reasonable: people have fairly demanding (sometimes irrational) restrictions on who they decide to keep in their lives as friends. This is about that. Not about slavery. Not about mismanagement of a company.

don't fool yourself.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#48

This article was written just a few months after the Justice Department in late 2010 announced its agreement with Adobe, Apple, Google, Intel, Intuit and Pixar regarding their anticompetitive practices. It is clearly a reaction to that agreement and its purpose is to lay out an argument that can be used to maintain plausible deniability regarding anticompetitive agreements by arguing that these activities are just fr…

It's not this post that's terribly wrong, but the widespread fallacy of equivalence between tiny companies and large corporations. It's not inconsistent to think it reasonable for small startups to avoid hiring each other's employees, yet that scaling this up to a significant part of the labor market is problematic.

Owning a small company doesn't magically exempt you from obeying the law.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#49
post #18
post #8

The similarities between this post and the actions that Google and Apple took and are now being investigated for are striking. At a small scale, it's just "good business" not to poach. At a large scale it's "evil" and illegal. Seems rather arbitrary to me.

I don't think it's good business at all. It's stupid and evil. It's very small scale, so it doesn't have a lot of consequences outside the one employee that gets screwed, but scale is really the only difference here. And even one employee getting screwed unfairly is one too many.

Right. We need to stop treating human interaction and people's livelihood, their very ability to earn a living and have a home and feed themselves and perhaps their family, as something that can be statistically gamed.

Grow the fuck up or do not run a company. Childish viewpoints are for the playground. If your friend can't deal with the fact that you offer a more attractive work environment, he or she deserves for their company to tank and the smart employees will follow the first one who leaves.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#50
post #27
post #6

I've met (and quickly distanced myself from) many people here in the Valley who prioritize short-term/short-sighted goals over long-term relationships. Even if you're not yet part of a tight-knit community here, word travels fast, especially on Secret. Screwing someone over can have long-term repercussions, and the last thing you'd want is for something as trivial as a single employee ruining a strong relationship fo…

So, the advice given here is certainly practical and useful, but it's also wrong. Not wrong as in incorrect, but wrong as it's effectively steeling an opportunity from an individual (and you!) in order to appease a relationship with someone who views their employees as property. The "thing" there is not the employee, but the opportunity.

In addition to the fact that this is inhumane, even from a business perspective, it's important to look at the Apple Google relationship, appeasing Steve Jobs was not a winning strategy for Google and it becomes increasingly clear that they AND individuals who wanted to work for them lost out on great opportunities to do things that were clearly in their mutual interest because it might upset a fucking sociopath.
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