Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#21

Post by nsedlet » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 10:45 AM UTC

When the friend is not also a business partner, this practice seems bad for the company - the CEO is hobbling the company's ability to hire to preserve a personal friendship. The CEO is not the only stakeholder - at the very least he/she should carefully weigh the effect on the friendship against the cost to the company of not making the hire.

On the other hand, Ben does point out that in practice you really shouldn't do this with very many companies, if any. And I'm not sure you could say that it's CEOs' (or any employees') duty to prevent personal considerations from affecting their work.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#22

Post by stephencanon » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 10:52 AM UTC

ericd wrote: post #13

cheepin wrote: post #9

Why shouldn't companies retain employees by paying them what they are worth and giving them a good work environment rather than colluding to keep them from leaving?

It's not about colluding, it's just that the new CEO is bound to not hire you out of loyalty to his/her friend. Social laws and laws on the books don't always line up well.

She’s not much of a CEO if loyalty to her friend trumps the best interests of the company in (what should be) a purely professional decision.

Her friend isn’t much of a friend if he lets a purely professional decision interfere with their non-professional relationship.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#23

Post by jnagro » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 10:59 AM UTC

"You can hire people away from your friends’ companies without damaging your relationship with that friend. You can fight to retain people while they’re being aggressively approached by other companies. Sometimes you will win, and sometimes you will lose. But through it all, you should keep a very important lesson in mind: You must refuse to engage in any agreements with other companies that insist you not hire from each other. Because that’s bad business. Plain and simple."

http://www.eliastorres.com/blog/how-to-fight-illegal-recruit...

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#24

Post by gtirloni » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 11:18 AM UTC

ericd wrote: post #13

cheepin wrote: post #9

Why shouldn't companies retain employees by paying them what they are worth and giving them a good work environment rather than colluding to keep them from leaving?

It's not about colluding, it's just that the new CEO is bound to not hire you out of loyalty to his/her friend. Social laws and laws on the books don't always line up well.

col·lude (kə-lo̅o̅d′) intr.v. col·lud·ed, col·lud·ing, col·ludes To act together secretly to achieve a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose; conspire. --

Seems like colluding to me. Just like in the Google/Apple/Adobe case. It doesn't matter if it's done out of friendship or fear of upsetting almighty Steve Jobs.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#25

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 11:30 AM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #5

argonaut wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but the correct question to ask (the opposite of your question), is: Is that illegal? And I'm pretty darn sure it is not illegal. Why would the even be illegal? You can reference check as much as you want. Be careful not to conflate social custom (it is customary that a company not reference check you with the company you work at) with law. EDIT (reply to below): which has nothing to do with law. Parent claime…

I would prefer to ask (a question you don't ask), is: Is that ethical? And I'm pretty darn sure it is not ethical.

I will tell you that I use all reasonably (and legally) available information in evaluating a prospective senior hire. That includes looking through my network for anyone who may have overlapped and getting their take on the candidate.

I will sometimes make an exception to that policy (hurting myself and my company) to not ask a current employer in cases where I probably wouldn't weigh that input very highly anyway.

I sure wouldn't expect that if you're applying to a company for an important position that they will entirely confine themselves to your list of references. Why on Earth would they? I'm going to check my network, your public Google/github/twitter/FB presence, etc.

To me, it's not about doing a reference check with my friend the CEO of the other company to whitewash unethical colluding behavior nor to threaten a candidate, but rather because doing reference checks with people who know the candidate well is good business.

I should perhaps provide the following color to the above: I will also aggressively recruit from a friend's company, and I've been on the other side, with startups/spin-outs aggressively recruiting top talent from within my organization. I never took it personally, and am happy to see the success that allows them to hire great employees, and happy to see employees go on to a job they prefer. My job is to make my own company a great place to work and retain top employees that way, not try to cultivate some quid-pro-quo social obligation to prevent the prison warden next door from hiring my prisoners.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#26

Post by eshvk » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 11:35 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #17

What a bizarre kind of possessiveness. Companies don't own their employees. Slavery is supposed to have ended quite some time ago (yes, I know it still exists). If you want to hire someone, hire them. If an employee leaves, let them leave. No hard feelings. If you really don't want them to leave, offer them more. Preferably do that before they think about leaving. This sort of unfair limitations on employee's employa…

I feel like that is not the point though. The analogy he made was fairly reasonable: people have fairly demanding (sometimes irrational) restrictions on who they decide to keep in their lives as friends. This is about that. Not about slavery. Not about mismanagement of a company.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#27

Post by skj » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 11:37 AM UTC

fenguin wrote: post #6

I've met (and quickly distanced myself from) many people here in the Valley who prioritize short-term/short-sighted goals over long-term relationships. Even if you're not yet part of a tight-knit community here, word travels fast, especially on Secret. Screwing someone over can have long-term repercussions, and the last thing you'd want is for something as trivial as a single employee ruining a strong relationship fo…

So, the advice given here is certainly practical and useful, but it's also wrong. Not wrong as in incorrect, but wrong as it's effectively steeling an opportunity from an individual (and you!) in order to appease a relationship with someone who views their employees as property.

The "thing" there is not the employee, but the opportunity.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#28

Post by skj » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 11:38 AM UTC

gtirloni wrote: post #24

ericd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about colluding, it's just that the new CEO is bound to not hire you out of loyalty to his/her friend. Social laws and laws on the books don't always line up well.

col·lude (kə-lo̅o̅d′) intr.v. col·lud·ed, col·lud·ing, col·ludes To act together secretly to achieve a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose; conspire. -- Seems like colluding to me. Just like in the Google/Apple/Adobe case. It doesn't matter if it's done out of friendship or fear of upsetting almighty Steve Jobs.

It may be colluding, but the comment said it wasn't "about" colluding, which may also be true.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#29

Post by Zigurd » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 11:42 AM UTC

mayop100 wrote: post #8

The similarities between this post and the actions that Google and Apple took and are now being investigated for are striking. At a small scale, it's just "good business" not to poach. At a large scale it's "evil" and illegal. Seems rather arbitrary to me.

It should be clear that taking money from your employees by denying them open choices in employment is unethical at any level. Having a multi-company cartel to do that is no less unethical and illegal than agreeing not to pay more than $X for processors or memory or LCD panels.

Re: Is it OK to Hire People from Your Friend’s Company? (2011)

#30

Post by Zigurd » Fri, Mar 28, 2014, 11:51 AM UTC

This article is terribly wrong except that it explains how otherwise intelligent people, advised by top-tier lawyers and employment compliance experts can go so wrong about a significant matter of law, ethics, and billions of dollars of the wage-earning economy in Silicon Valley.