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Turkish government takes down YouTube too

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Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#131

Post by blendergasket »

What's really interesting to me is that it seems like some very, very powerful and well-connected player, who either has access to the communication networks or people at the top of the Turkish totem pole is trying to use social media to destabilize/overthrow a government.

I don't know much about what's going on in Turkey and the corruption that's being exposed is definitely hugely damning, but I'm curious if there is any credible idea as to who is behind all this leaking? It definitely isn't a group of your average concerned citizens.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#132

Post by mrtksn »

zmanian wrote: post #34

It is amazing the DNS system lasted this long. Turkey seems ready to push over this house of cards. Hopefully a namecoin type system will rise from the ashes. Trust without cryptography is dead.

A Turkish scholar have nice analysis on this. She thinks that the Turkish government does not seek to completely ban the spread of information and knows that it's not possible. Instead the government tries to demonize the social media to keep it's supporters away from it.

here is the full article: https://medium.com/p/cb596ce5f27

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#133

Post by alabut »

chalst wrote: post #109
jmcannon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This understanding is outdated. AKP has gutted the old secular military establishment and instituted reforms that no longer make this a realistic scenario.

"Gutted" seems strong to me: the military has lost its influence over the judiciary, but they are a very strong, well-funded and influential arm of the state, and they seem to be gaining some measure of public respect that they lost. I could be wrong, but I think the ethos of being guardians of the constitution is still there. (And, for its own reasons, the AKP has been stressing the possibility of a coup as a reason…

Nope, the military isn't as strong in Turkey as it used to be. Jailing a bunch of top generals will do that.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#134

Post by EGreg »

ngcazz wrote: post #73
Joeboy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the "information wants to be free" and "the internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" slogans of yesteryear. The internet isn't magic. There is no natural law that means it will always emerge victorious.

The latter is quite a clever slogan, however it conveniently omits that the internet is ran and used by people. They need to put those mechanisms in place.

This might not be true of https traffic, since the intermediate servers that route to the destination may be compromised.

But it should be true of Tor, Freenet etc. right?

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#135

Post by jballanc »

blendergasket wrote: post #131

What's really interesting to me is that it seems like some very, very powerful and well-connected player, who either has access to the communication networks or people at the top of the Turkish totem pole is trying to use social media to destabilize/overthrow a government. I don't know much about what's going on in Turkey and the corruption that's being exposed is definitely hugely damning, but I'm curious if there i…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClen_movement

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#136

Post by EGreg »

Nitramp wrote: post #122
evv wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right- the internet isn't magic. There is a natural law at play here, and you just mentioned it! Information does want to be free- its not just a slogan, its a universal law. There is no practical way for a corrupt government to constrain the flow of information in this day and age.

I think you're gravely underestimating the effects of propaganda and herd thinking. Significant parts of the US populace appear the seriously believe - despite undisrupted internet access - that evolution is a lie, the world has been created 4000 years ago etc. And that's without a state-sponsored actor trying to influence people. Unfettered access to information does not mean people will access, accept, understand,…

The information is out there, though, even if not everyone reaches the conclusions that you agree with.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#137

Post by EGreg »

delinka wrote: post #106
stelonix wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Korea never had Internet (as we know it) in the first place, so it does not apply.

"Information wants to be free" doesn't apply to North Korea because they never had access to the Internet as we know it? Information is only dependent on the Internet insofar as the Internet is a transmission medium. Other media exist even in NK- print, broadcast, word-of-mouth. Information can be exchanged freely by whispering voices.

That information has a much higher chance of corruption while in transit, and the bandwidth is low. People can't broadcast photos and videos through whispers for instance.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#138

Post by morsch »

Joeboy wrote: post #51
arbitrage wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was interesting when we saw governments attempt it last time, too. And then they stopped, because they were overthrown. I wonder if this is going to be a law, now ... a government that attempts to dismantle the internet a piece at a time in their country is going to fail.

This reminds me of the "information wants to be free" and "the internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" slogans of yesteryear. The internet isn't magic. There is no natural law that means it will always emerge victorious.

They haven't taken down the Internet, just a couple of sites. Information can (and does) still easily get in and out of the country. So my first thought was, it shouldn't really matter that much.

However, on second thought, while information can still travel freely, the question remains who to send it to and who to receive it from. That's because people have outsourced their social graph to single remote entities (case in point: Twitter). They could still communicate with everyone, but have made themselves reliant on a single point of failure.

Of course none of this refutes your point -- the Internet isn't magic. But I think the powers that be are very reluctant to through out the baby with the bathwater.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#139

Post by spoiler »

Isn't this the wrong approach, though? I mean, sure you can try to block people form finding the truth, but at least be covert about it; this is plain naïve.

Their methodology is just putting them (the government) into the spotlight. Shouldn't they try and divert the attention?

This ensures people find the truth sooner rather than later. I feel like they've been played by some high-up in the government techs person who just got sick of the corruption and decided to add a catalyst.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#140

Post by darkhorn »

MimiZ wrote: post #95

They can't cover up their corruption. It's like the whole world is watching...how could they be so stupid. What are they going to do next? Block Google? Apparently they top the list of "government requests that request content removal": http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-tops-google-content-...

Check your emails quickly, I'm going to shut down the electricity http://i.imgur.com/Dkf3QKR.jpg
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