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Turkish government takes down YouTube too

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Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#121

Post by cinquemb »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #92
cinquemb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes you wonder, if everything had gone to the original plan in syria already, nat gas pipelines would be headed to europe by now and the IMF wouldn't bother with the gazprom bill to russia… Also interesting how there has been very little action about the blackouts from the State Dept talking heads (beyond the toothless shaming), if this had been a country not doing the bidding of tptb we would probably hear of sanc…

Are you suggesting that a "western conspiracy" was responsible for the turmoil in Syria? That their people did not have serious grievances with a regime that tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people for political reasons even before the current conflict started?

Not necessarily (because the conflict is not black and white), just that "the west" (if you include Qatar, Saudi Arabia[0], Israel, etc…) and "the east" all have interests in the region and have manipulated the conflict on multiple levels regardless of environment before Syria went "hot". Just like everywhere else in the world where someone is trying to make a buck…

Some of those interests have been well stated by the CFR[1] and RAND years…

Besides, "the west" didn't step into Iraq until the beginning of the 90's (and even then didn't dispose him until the 00's) while Saddam who was being bankrolled by the west was doing their bidding as well as torturing and murdering tens of thousands of people in the 80's… and even now, thousands more continue to die in northern Iraq and I don't hear people parroting that around, so lets not try to evoke the knee jerk emotions and remember all "sides" have blood on their hands in pursuit of their self interests…

[0] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-syria-crisis-sa... [1] http://www.cfr.org/qatar/tiny-qatars-big-plans-may-change-mi...

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#122

Post by Nitramp »

evv wrote: post #80
Joeboy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the "information wants to be free" and "the internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" slogans of yesteryear. The internet isn't magic. There is no natural law that means it will always emerge victorious.

You're right- the internet isn't magic. There is a natural law at play here, and you just mentioned it! Information does want to be free- its not just a slogan, its a universal law. There is no practical way for a corrupt government to constrain the flow of information in this day and age.

I think you're gravely underestimating the effects of propaganda and herd thinking. Significant parts of the US populace appear the seriously believe - despite undisrupted internet access - that evolution is a lie, the world has been created 4000 years ago etc. And that's without a state-sponsored actor trying to influence people.

Unfettered access to information does not mean people will access, accept, understand, and use that information. If you have a massive state-run media monopoly, you're able to manipulate people in remarkable ways.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#123

Post by yawz »

twobits wrote: post #119

It's because of this leak: Turkish top political and military leaders, organizing a false flag attack, to have an excuse to attack Syria: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-27/here-youtube-false-...

Just to add to this point: There are regional elections in Turkey on Sunday and the ruling party is expected to receive a serious blow. One of the rumours has always been that this government could even risk going to war rather than losing power. Well... now we have proof that it is the case.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#124

Post by notahacker »

pessimizer wrote: post #113
shna wrote: post #103

I am a native Turkish speaker and I listened the recording. For one thing I did not hear anything you would not expect to hear from most of the statesman in the west in a similar situation. Conversation is about the future stance of Turkey for the civil war in Syria and lack of enough resolve for the last 3 years to intervene properly, and that does not mean directly involving but not supplying ammo to rebel groups a…

>Probably we need to consider how US would react if an Al-Qaeda linked group starts taking over northern villages of Mexico while a civil war is going on in there. Why would "al-Qaeda linked" groups be considered more dangerous than the mass-murdering cartels? Mexico is almost a failed state and we haven't invaded.

Unlike Islamist terror groups' views on secular Turkey, the mass murdering cartels have no particular interest in US regime change. That said US military units can and frequently do carpet bomb parts of Latin America with herbicides as part of the War on Drugs, so it's a stone cold certainty that the US military has discussed strategies for targeting Mexican cartels and what level of provocation/support would be needed to prompt direct military involvement.

If US politicians were publicly stating willingness to intervene militarily in Mexico to protect a purely symbolic target, as appears to be the case here (link [5] above) I'd expect that behind closed doors leaders would be discussing what would be necessary to win international support, and sceptics would be expressing similar cynicism about whether the talking tough was really more about domestic politics.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#125

Post by yawz »

shna wrote: post #103

I am a native Turkish speaker and I listened the recording. For one thing I did not hear anything you would not expect to hear from most of the statesman in the west in a similar situation. Conversation is about the future stance of Turkey for the civil war in Syria and lack of enough resolve for the last 3 years to intervene properly, and that does not mean directly involving but not supplying ammo to rebel groups a…

> I did not hear anything you would not expect to hear from most of the statesman in the west in a similar situation.

What are you talking about?!?

The head of secret service states: "If need be, I'll send 4 lads to Syria. I'll make them fire 8 rockets back to Turkey in order to produce a valid reason to go to war. We can make them attack the Soliman Shah mausoleum"

Is this NORMAL in your opinion? Does that have anything defendable?

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#126

Post by shna »

pessimizer wrote: post #120
shna wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not a civil war in Mexico, is it? Mexican government is not bombing Mexican cities with fighter jets either. 120,000 (actually 658,000 if proportioned it to Mexican population) people have not died in Mexico in the last 3 years, and 3 million (12 million) people have not displaced as refugee in bordering countries either. Would you like me to go on? Mexican government is fully cooperating with US and not act…

>There is not a civil war in Mexico, is it? Depends on who you ask. >120,000 (actually 658,000 if proportioned it to Mexican population) people have not died in Mexico in the last 3 years No, more like 100,000 in eight. What's your threshold? >3 million (12 million) people have not displaced as refugee in bordering countries either. http://usopenborders.com/2012/04/160000-mexicans-displaced-i... edit: I'm not using M…

Nowhere I said Turkey should invade or anything. This is a bit getting out of hand. I just wanted to draw attention giving an example. However creating a temporary buffer zone where a terrorist group already taken control of is not unthinkable either.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#127

Post by twobits »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #59
DickingAround wrote: post #14

Blocking social media sites and expecting it to reduce tension is like turning off TV & radio broadcasting and expecting people to remain in their homes; it's a failure to understand modern systems of control. Orwell doesn't work at all. Huxley is your only hope Turkey :P

Orwell does work, North Korea and Cuba are examples of that. But you can't create an Orwellian police state over night, and those sorts of oppressive regimes tend to be unstable (Libya, East Germany, Romania, etc. all gone now).

"But you can't create an Orwellian police state over night, and those sorts of oppressive regimes tend to be unstable (Libya, East Germany, Romania, etc. all gone now)."

Only if there is an "outside", to force reality in. If you are the emperor, and control everything, the Orwellian state works very nicely..

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#128

Post by oleganza »

arbitrage wrote: post #42
ljd wrote: post #7

It's interesting to see a country dismantle internet access site by site. It challenges our notions of what we think will always be there. If your site has a dependency on YouTube, your site isn't going to be functioning in Turkey. It's like Netflix's Chaos Monkey [0], but in real life. [0] http://techblog.netflix.com/2012/07/chaos-monkey-released-in...

It was interesting when we saw governments attempt it last time, too. And then they stopped, because they were overthrown. I wonder if this is going to be a law, now ... a government that attempts to dismantle the internet a piece at a time in their country is going to fail.

I'd say governments fight the internet because they are failing.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#130

Post by vlahmot »

yawz wrote: post #125
shna wrote: post #103

I am a native Turkish speaker and I listened the recording. For one thing I did not hear anything you would not expect to hear from most of the statesman in the west in a similar situation. Conversation is about the future stance of Turkey for the civil war in Syria and lack of enough resolve for the last 3 years to intervene properly, and that does not mean directly involving but not supplying ammo to rebel groups a…

> I did not hear anything you would not expect to hear from most of the statesman in the west in a similar situation. What are you talking about?!? The head of secret service states: "If need be, I'll send 4 lads to Syria. I'll make them fire 8 rockets back to Turkey in order to produce a valid reason to go to war. We can make them attack the Soliman Shah mausoleum" Is this NORMAL in your opinion? Does that have anyt…

Many times in history people lie or scheme to go to war. For instance the Gulf of Tonkin incident that prompted US entry into Vietnam, or the sinking of the Lusitania before the US entry into WWII where the German government placed ads in newspapers telling people not to get on the ship as it would be sunk.
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