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Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

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Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#141

Post by m0a0t0 »

hkphooey wrote: post #56
mikestew wrote: post #8

Just the CEO? Who else shall we burn at the stake? Mary, the office manager, goes to church every Sunday. How did she vote? John over in mobile dev is a devout Muslim, I'll bet he doesn't take kindly to such things as gay marriage. Time to start scanning through those campaign contribution records for Prop 8 and seeing if a JOIN on the employee database gives us any results. I've always held to the idea that my job i…

Yes, Mary the office manager, she claims to be a Christian but I've always suspected her of being a witch. Burn her! Drown her! Do both! But whatever you do, don't go near John, because I hear he gets upset over cartoons and he might react violently rather than meekly accepting punishment like a good Christian. If you're sick of the political correctness and need a good laugh, watch this short piece by British aethis…

Why is it that for some people political correctness - something which tries to make people respect one another more and be nice - is the devil.

You have the right to say almost whatever you want. That doesn't mean you fucking should, does it? There's a big difference between the two

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#142

Post by bowlofpetunias »

eigenvector wrote: post #4

The fact that they can come out and say this demonstrates that these employees, the people best able to assess this, don't believe that Eich will retaliate. That Mozilla is and remains a place where any employee can express their views on political issues, even if they know they're contrary to the CEO's. And that destroys any argument for Eich's role as CEO creating a conflict with Mozilla's ability to welcome LGBTQ…

There is a documented instance of him supporting treating gay people, including Mozilla employees, as second class humans.

You expect employees to keep working for a CEO who doesn't consider them equal human beings?

Why do people keep pretending this is a valid political view? This is about vicious hatred, and if he can keep that under control I admire his discipline, but no employee should have to work under that threat.

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#143

Post by m0a0t0 »

twoodfin wrote: post #71
cdmckay wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you'd be ok if he was a racist? Brendan is entitled to express his views, but it doesn't mean they come without consequences.

By that logic, I'm sure no one working at Mozilla voted for Barack Obama in 2008 when he publicly held a position you now consider in the same ethical category as that a "racist" would hold. This is not so far removed from saying Mary Jones shouldn't be CEO of Mozilla because she donated to a campaign against CO2 emission restrictions: Again by analogy with a settled political issue, "She's denying Global Warming. Yo…

Sometimes you have to vote for the lesser evil. It's pragmatism. Choose between the person who will try and stop gay marriage from happening by enshrining it in law or the person who won't actively stop it (or someone who has no chance of getting in). Seems quite obvious.

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#144

Post by intortus »

drone wrote: post #130
gjm11 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The Roman Catholic Church does not require tithes from its members. I'm not sure any part of it ever has. 2. No one is saying that every employee who does as Eich did should be fired. Some people are saying that someone who has done as Eich did shouldn't be CEO of Mozilla .

So, a Catholic who actively tithes, should not be allowed to be CEO of Mozilla? What about a Lutheran that actively tithes? Both of these organizations work directly to prevent gay marriage, and that money goes to amplifying that cause.

It's plausibly deniable that you're contributing tithes specifically to take rights away from gays. It's hard to deny that if you're contributing to Prop 8.

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#145

Post by PeterOliver »

DerpDerpDerp wrote: post #104
Jormundir wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it a witch hunt. Now every Mozilla employee's work is contributing to Eich's paycheck. The paycheck with which he will (has) donate(d) to oppose gay marriage. If I was a Mozilla employee, this is not something I would want to be contributing to. This argument can obviously be applied to any employee in the company, but it's severely exacerbated when it's applied to the CEO, who's getting a huge payche…

Do you support employees being fired for supporting gay marriage then? I don't see any difference in the two positions (both are using their paychecks to advanced a political cause), except that you personally agree with one position and not the other.

Where did all of this moral relativism come from?

What Eich believes goes against basic human rights. This isn't some argument about tax rates.

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#146

Post by slantyyz »

freehunter wrote: post #59
angersock wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the proposition's full text: http://www.ag.ca.gov/cms_pdfs/initiatives/i737_07-0068_Initi... It hardly vilifies anyone--it's pretty stupidly worded as is ("marriage"? What is that? How does it compare with "civil union"?) Look, did you vote for Obama or Bush? Then you too have actively vilified people and acted to take away their rights. We can't punish people for participating in our form of government, even…

>"marriage"? What is that? Marriage is a defined legal construct, not an abstract idea. >We can't punish people for participating in our form of government, even if we disagree with them. Of course we can. It's the government that can't. We can freely choose who we associate with, and we can freely choose to not associate with people who hold opinions that we feel are immoral, even if the opinion isn't illegal.

>> Of course we can. It's the government that can't.

Is that true? I'm not American or a lawyer so I don't know what workplace discrimination laws are like, but I would assume that in many western countries, you can't legally discriminate against or harass workers or fellow employees based on their beliefs.

This opens up a legal question to which I don't know the answer: Where would these "step down" tweets tread legally with respect to workplace harassment?

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#147

Post by hkphooey »

wonderzombie wrote: post #87
Mikeb85 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely is a witch hunt. What next? Are you going to fire any employee that goes on vacation to Russia, Turkey, or gasp Cuba? Or anyone that contributes to a charity you don't agree with?

There're any number of reasons why someone might visit those countries. When you put up $1K towards a political campaign whose raison d'etre is to deny gay people the right to marry, it's rather well defined what the expectation is. I don't understand what charities have to do with this, though. Surely there are charities which would be morally objectionable. If he'd donated to a charity with similar aims to the Prop…

> There're any number of reasons why someone might visit those countries.

People were calling for a boycott of all things Russian, or did you forget that?

The irony of course being that Russia decriminalized same-sex relationships in 1993 long before the US, effectively, did the same in 2003 even though 14 states still ban sodomy.

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#148

Post by slantyyz »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #142
eigenvector wrote: post #4

The fact that they can come out and say this demonstrates that these employees, the people best able to assess this, don't believe that Eich will retaliate. That Mozilla is and remains a place where any employee can express their views on political issues, even if they know they're contrary to the CEO's. And that destroys any argument for Eich's role as CEO creating a conflict with Mozilla's ability to welcome LGBTQ…

There is a documented instance of him supporting treating gay people, including Mozilla employees, as second class humans. You expect employees to keep working for a CEO who doesn't consider them equal human beings? Why do people keep pretending this is a valid political view? This is about vicious hatred, and if he can keep that under control I admire his discipline, but no employee should have to work under that th…

>> You expect employees to keep working for a CEO who doesn't consider them equal human beings?

Not to be cheeky, but in my experience, many CEOs don't consider their workers to be equal beings (and I find this to be more true with very large organizations), and it has less to do with demographics/politics/religion than it does with the status that comes with the position of power.

--edited a word for clarity

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#149

Post by freyrs3 »

m0a0t0 wrote: post #54
Mikeb85 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for posting this. It's insane that there's this witch-hunt over someone's personal views, and the fact that this outlandish behaviour is actually supported and applauded by people. If anything this just gives more credence to the 'gay agenda' conspiracies that up until fairly recently no one took seriously...

Because equal marriage is really, really important. When gay people are not accepted in society opposing something that would improve that greatly is a bad thing to do

Marriage equality is important, but a society in which we're able to go to work, do ours jobs and bracket our concerns about the personal lives of our coworkers and bosses is more important than any immediate social issue in the present. It's the foundational principle of living in a pluralistic society.

Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”

#150

Post by FireBeyond »

eigenvector wrote: post #4

The fact that they can come out and say this demonstrates that these employees, the people best able to assess this, don't believe that Eich will retaliate. That Mozilla is and remains a place where any employee can express their views on political issues, even if they know they're contrary to the CEO's. And that destroys any argument for Eich's role as CEO creating a conflict with Mozilla's ability to welcome LGBTQ…

"when there is no documented instance of him ever disparaging or otherwise harming LGBTQ employees or community members."

Other than financially supporting and lobbying for the passage of Proposition 8, you mean?

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