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Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

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Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#21

Post by pj »

plinkplonk wrote: post #7
tocomment wrote: post #3

Just out of personal curiosity, you should try to find out if any of these failed candidates are actually skilled developers but there's something about the questions or interview that's messing them up? For example I consider myself a reasonable programmer, I can certainly do any project put in front of me. But I failed a YouTube phone interview because they asked me to "say" a function for finding the longest commo…

"you should try to find out if any of these failed candidates are actually skilled developers but there's something about the questions or interview that's messing them up? hard to think of a halfway competent developer failing to answer "where I ask them to implement a simple function, implement a recursive function, write a simple SQL select (join across two tables), and create a simple object model (how would you…

I agree. The questions the OP asked are all very easy. It'd be easy to describe a function to find the longest common subsequence of a set of strings as well. The reason such a question is asked is because it isn't something that we do everyday and how we solve problems that we don't immediately know how to solve is what sets good programmers apart from bad programmers.

I find anyone who immediately blames the environment for their lack of ability to answer the questions correctly to be suspect. These types of complainers are externally motivated and will never accept fault for their lack of capabilities. "You should have asked me in a different way." or "I need to be taught differently" or "There's too much pressure"... look, you can come up with whatever excuses you want, but the fact is, you can't solve the problem and what we are looking for is someone who can solve problems.

Case closed.

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#22

Post by tocomment »

soc wrote: post #6
tocomment wrote: post #3

Just out of personal curiosity, you should try to find out if any of these failed candidates are actually skilled developers but there's something about the questions or interview that's messing them up? For example I consider myself a reasonable programmer, I can certainly do any project put in front of me. But I failed a YouTube phone interview because they asked me to "say" a function for finding the longest commo…

I agree. When I first meet someone over the phone or in person I'm in a social mood and prefer to talk rather than do a code dance for them. Once I'm alone at my desk though it's easy to get down to business. Think it would be cool if companies just said show up to work, and you work for free for the first week. After that both parties can decide if they want to continue.

That's a really good idea. If wish we had that too.

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#23

Post by tocomment »

_pius wrote: post #15
allenbrunson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh man, this is my downfall as well. hearing stories about the way google conducts interviews convinces me that i'll never get in there, or anywhere like it. i'm perfectly willing to write code as part of a job interview. just not on a whiteboard or over the phone.

i'm perfectly willing to write code as part of a job interview. just not on a whiteboard or over the phone. why not on a whiteboard?

Like I mentioned, I just get flustered when people are watching me, or want me to speak my though process aloud.

Those skills, (being able to code complex problems when people are watching) have never been a requirement of any job I've seen so I've come out of many interviews feeling that they got an inaccurate picture of my skills.

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#24

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

pj wrote: post #20
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to immediately discount any advice or proposals that suggest I work for free.

I would actually enjoy a one week type engagement to get a good fit for a company. It works both ways. You are selling your time. They are selling their environment. The problem is that the employer is accepting a lot more risk than the employee. Do you like paying for something you can't return and you can't get your money back for if it is crap? This is the situation a lot of companies are in. They hire someone, th…

I would actually enjoy a one week type engagement to get a good fit for a company

So would I. But since I'm WORKING for that one week, I expect to be paid for it. I really don't think anyone should be surprised by that!

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#25

Post by redorb »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #11
soc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. When I first meet someone over the phone or in person I'm in a social mood and prefer to talk rather than do a code dance for them. Once I'm alone at my desk though it's easy to get down to business. Think it would be cool if companies just said show up to work, and you work for free for the first week. After that both parties can decide if they want to continue.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to immediately discount any advice or proposals that suggest I work for free.

I think show up and work for a week - with your old pay + 20%, then we'll talk about further negotiations - (perhaps another 10% or so) ... or we can both walk away.

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#26

Post by stanleydrew »

soc wrote: post #6
tocomment wrote: post #3

Just out of personal curiosity, you should try to find out if any of these failed candidates are actually skilled developers but there's something about the questions or interview that's messing them up? For example I consider myself a reasonable programmer, I can certainly do any project put in front of me. But I failed a YouTube phone interview because they asked me to "say" a function for finding the longest commo…

I agree. When I first meet someone over the phone or in person I'm in a social mood and prefer to talk rather than do a code dance for them. Once I'm alone at my desk though it's easy to get down to business. Think it would be cool if companies just said show up to work, and you work for free for the first week. After that both parties can decide if they want to continue.

I know a bunch of smaller startups that do the "come in for a week and we'll decide" out here in the bay area. Peanut Labs, e.g.

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#28

Post by pj »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #24
pj wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would actually enjoy a one week type engagement to get a good fit for a company. It works both ways. You are selling your time. They are selling their environment. The problem is that the employer is accepting a lot more risk than the employee. Do you like paying for something you can't return and you can't get your money back for if it is crap? This is the situation a lot of companies are in. They hire someone, th…

I would actually enjoy a one week type engagement to get a good fit for a company So would I. But since I'm WORKING for that one week, I expect to be paid for it. I really don't think anyone should be surprised by that!

Hmm... I see your point. Perhaps we disagree on the word "work." When I think of "work" I think of moving a company in a desired direction.

A lot of people think of work as "sitting in a cube."

The question is, "How do we determine if the candidate's definition of work matches the employer's definition of work?"

Maybe what you think you are doing when you are working is actually causing more problems and moving the company backwards because they are going to have to undo all the crappy code you wrote. I'm not meaning to attack you, I'm just trying to illustrate a point. Know what I mean?

Maybe such an engagement could work out where, "If we hire you, we pay you for the week. If we fire you, we keep the money and you are out."

This reduces the risk for the employer while also giving the employee a chance to examine the company and be paid if the work is satisfactory.

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#29

Post by donaldc »

I'm not sure why that's depressing. You've managed to filter out the majority of people you'd not want to hire with just a simple set of tests.

Perhaps a way to screen out many of these people without spending the time administering the screen is to have a simple coding test that these people complete before you'll even have them in for an interview. A couple places I've interviewed with did this, and they both expressed high satisfaction with the reduction in interviews of hopeless candidates that resulted.

Re: Ask YC: Does interviewing developers leave you depressed?

#30

Post by lutorm »

pj wrote: post #21
plinkplonk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you should try to find out if any of these failed candidates are actually skilled developers but there's something about the questions or interview that's messing them up? hard to think of a halfway competent developer failing to answer "where I ask them to implement a simple function, implement a recursive function, write a simple SQL select (join across two tables), and create a simple object model (how would you…

I agree. The questions the OP asked are all very easy. It'd be easy to describe a function to find the longest common subsequence of a set of strings as well. The reason such a question is asked is because it isn't something that we do everyday and how we solve problems that we don't immediately know how to solve is what sets good programmers apart from bad programmers. I find anyone who immediately blames the enviro…

Case appealed.

There are definitely people who are capable of solving problems but whose performance drops appreciably under pressure. Now, you may not want to hire those people, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with external motivation or making excuses, and you can keep your contempt for yourself.

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