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Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#241
post #53

I think it would be helpful to try to understand the perspective of management. Consider an extreme stereotype: the "business school guy." He went to XYZ school of management, where he learned that a business is an organization that takes in raw materials and creates something more valuable than the sum of the unfinished parts. He learned how to raise money by selling his business idea to other people who think like…

> The point is that generally people in management can be assumed to be doing their best.

This is a very significant point. The best part about building systems with computers is that their reactions to your changes are deterministic. With people, it isn't so cut-and-dry, especially in the world of cutting big-money business deals. In my personal opinion, there's really no "right" way to run a business, but there are plenty of wrong ways.

Over time, I've learned that one major origin of respect for your co-workers as well as your superiors stems from a respect or appreciation of them as people. Personally, I feel as though many of my co-workers could have been friends of mine had we met outside of work (not that they can't be even though we met at work, but you get my point), and I'm confident that they both understand and respect my viewpoints, because I do the same for them. This means a lot to me. When I see something wrong, I say something. In a small team startup, I believe I have the power to make changes that could affect the outcome of the company. Not only that, but I believe the product that we're developing is useful and beneficial to mass amounts of people. It may not be a venue by which we can "change the world", but perhaps we can make a few people's lives a little easier and bring their costs down tremendously.

So coming back, a lot of what this may be is a disconnect between the developer and the authority figures that sit atop him in the hierarchy. It's always hard to bow down to authority, but one with power who you both trust and admire is not really considered an "authority" in your head, is it?

It could "just be you", but I happen to think there are far more people out there I wouldn't want to work for than people I do want to work for.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#242
I think a combination between 2/ and 4/. Specifically, building a successful business is really hard.

Looking at something that doesn't work, and pulling the plug, so that scarce resources can be better focused on other things that show more promise, is one of the hard things that management has to do.

It may be that a six-month investment in an API platform would unlock the possibility of OWNING THE CLOUD in the future. But if the company has to worry about payroll between here and there, a shorter-term project, like a two-week A/B split test on better ways of monetizing existing customers, might be more in everyone's actual interest. (It's been a while since I was in a company that close to the margin, but short-term decisions show up for many reasons that are just as compelling.)

I've found that, at good companies, the thinking and data that goes into these decisions is shared with the company. If there's not an all-hands that talks about this with some frequency, at least the managers that make these calls answer questions, and also actively seek and act upon feedback from anywhere in the company.

Some companies don't have that culture, and management is managing mainly through fiat and "it's my way!" I find it hard to be effective in such an environment, and these environments tend to self-select away in the long run, but there's no dearth of such environments alive today. Screening for this in the interviewing process is important, and also hard.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naturally some companies are better than others. You want to find a manager who thinks of himself as your equal rather than your slaver. This is key. The first sin of management is to think they're managing people. Innovation comes from collaboration among talented equals trying to solve a real problem in the world, not from someone bestowing his unique vision upon the masses and giving them the privilege of working…

Innovation comes from collaboration among talented equals, not from someone bestowing his unique vision upon the masses and giving them the privilege of working for him. You nailed it. It is the latter attitude that I find the best predictor of whether there's going to be endless frustration at a company. Agreed. The MBA entitlement is pretty easy to spot and always toxic. It's better to compromise on technical detai…

I once head a radio personality say,"There's nothing more useless to a company than a Harvard MBA." At first, I thought it was too harsh, but as I put on a few years, I knew what he was talking about. As a society, we are becoming more sophisticated; a lot of us know when we are being manipulated. When ever I see a company advertise incessantly--I now wonder who pays for this exposure. I then usually find a company with drastically lower prices, and by golly, holy hootenanny; This company doesn't advertise everywhere.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#246

Whether you're 1/2/3/4/5, you're not alone. My dad has worked at the same company since he dropped out of college around 40 years ago (he runs it now). I do think our generation's (well, I'm 32, don't know about you) job goals are a lot different and a lot more conducive to short-term jobs, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that. I tend to place maximum value on doing real work and self improv…

Thank you for your reply. I am 30 and indeed, we seem to have different work expectations than our fathers. I am probably too easy to work with. I take care of loose ends, make it easy for people to achieve their goal, polish sharp corners for everything to run smoothly, treat everyone respectfully, etc... Everyone ends up thinking everything is natural and are surprised when I suddenly quit.

Definitely try consulting. I've always been a consultant and get bored incredibly easily when programming for money. Regardless of how interesting a project is; we are still doing this for money. Benefit of consulting is that when the term ends be it 4 weeks or 4 months, onwards.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#247
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd start by reaching out to people that you already know through previous jobs and any other contacts you have (maybe avoiding people connected to your current employer). Starting up a business is pretty simple from a paper work standpoint and doesn't have excessive overhead costs or paperwork requirements if you aren't doing any work through said company. Now you have a company ready to accept checks or payment whe…

do you think incorporating as a company is worth it when you are not making a large amount of money to begin with?

in the US, most states allow an LLC formation - this is usually cheaper and offers you some protection against losing your personal assets in a legal dispute. You need to be above board and document all your stuff (expenses, etc), don't mix personal and business use expenses, keep separate bank accounts, etc. To start with for most solo freelancers, this is fine. At some point - "incorporating" might make more sense, but the ceiling would be moderately high. Going for an actual 'incorporation' may make more sense if you have external shareholders and such, or are looking to take investment from outside. Until then, as a solo practitioner, an LLC is usually the simplest combination of protection and minimal legal record keeping.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#248
post #53

I think it would be helpful to try to understand the perspective of management. Consider an extreme stereotype: the "business school guy." He went to XYZ school of management, where he learned that a business is an organization that takes in raw materials and creates something more valuable than the sum of the unfinished parts. He learned how to raise money by selling his business idea to other people who think like…

> You want to find a manager who thinks of himself as your equal rather than your slaver. In my experience, this doesn't exist. Having a manager has already established a hierarchy of relationships that you deal with in your day to day work. Even if your manager tries to be an equal to you, they are in fact not your equal, they are your superior. > Instead of asking yourself "does this management know what it's doing…

>> You want to find a manager who thinks of himself as your equal rather than your slaver. > In my experience, this doesn't exist. ... Even if your manager tries to be an equal to you, they are in fact not your equal, they are your superior.

The key here is that the manager tries to be, influencing his behavior. Yes if you look at the org chart, their roles are different. Otherwise he'd have no authority to make decisions for the team. However, the quality described above isn't whether they are equal or not, it's how the manager thinks of himself.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#249
I think it's a combination of 2 and 4. I've been in two startups that were working on things that aligned with my interests and things that I thought were pretty awesome. Then after the first year or two, due to the inability to acquire customers or the existing business model not working out, pivots happened, resources and people started getting moved into different teams and projects, and communication started breaking down between the execs, management, and engineers.

Then shit just hits the fan as people leave, sometimes taking others with them, as soon as they realise that things aren't going as well as the company would want them to believe. After all, a company isn't going to outright tell its employees that things are going to hell (until the very end at least). That'll just cause a bigger exodus of talent. So it's not uncommon in a failing startup that management starts BSing - it's all about retaining employees.

In the end I think when you join a startup you have to be realistic about its chances of succeeding. Not every startup's a rocketship. You're going to get bullshit, pivots, short sighted decisions (or indecisions) when things aren't going well.

My advice is to not be too emotionally attached to your job or go in with too high expectations. If you sense bullshit coming out from management, do some due diligence on the state of the company and leave if you must. After all, if you're not happy doing what you're doing, then it's not worth it. There's a ton of startups out there looking for talent, and I'm sure you'll be able to land another job.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#250
None of the above. Seems like you've been picking early stage startups where this chaos is inevitable or growth stage startups with bad management.

Some tips if they're helpful: 1. Find a growth stage series A or B funded startup with a product market fit where focus is now on scaling up. They are beginning to know what they are doing.

2. I give more weight to the team than the project or idea itself. Ideas change all the time. So its more important to work with great people. Find a place where you admire and like the people.

3. Voice your opinions. You're not working for a "manager", you're working for a "company". You should be open about what you think and feel. If that's not welcome, you're in the wrong place.

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