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IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

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11–20 of 317 posts

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#11
post #8

"Under the ruling, purchasing a $2 cup of coffee with Bitcoins bought for $1 would trigger $1 in capital gains for the coffee drinker and $2 of income for the coffee shop." So if the coffee shop leaves the "property" as bitcoins instead of converting it over to dollars, and the value of those bitcoins falls before cashing-out, they're stuck paying tax on the $2 worth of income despite potentially no-longer having the…

Welcome to the tax world! This is true of a lot of things.

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#12
post #9

Interesting, but unsurprising. The more interesting aspect is that unlike tangible property, bank accounts or stock transactions that can be audited, this seems practically unenforceable on the IRS's part.

At large enough amounts, the IRS routinely investigates large accounts no matter how they are held. For example, in cocaine and cash.

At some point you spend the money, and the difference in spending and taxes paid gets their attention.

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#13
post #9

Interesting, but unsurprising. The more interesting aspect is that unlike tangible property, bank accounts or stock transactions that can be audited, this seems practically unenforceable on the IRS's part.

Exactly. They write:

> “The danger is the creation of an electronic black market, similar to the cash economy,”

But how can they avoid it if Bitcoin does work like cash in many aspects and they have no control over it?

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#14
post #8

"Under the ruling, purchasing a $2 cup of coffee with Bitcoins bought for $1 would trigger $1 in capital gains for the coffee drinker and $2 of income for the coffee shop." So if the coffee shop leaves the "property" as bitcoins instead of converting it over to dollars, and the value of those bitcoins falls before cashing-out, they're stuck paying tax on the $2 worth of income despite potentially no-longer having the…

Well, capital gains would be a different set of taxes, but this is essentially how other currencies work, as well. If you earn income, you earn it at the exchange rate at that time--even if the exchange rate takes a dive in the future.

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#15

It seems there are hypothetical scenarios where your taxes could exceed your net worth. If you mine a bitcoin worth $1000, and then it's value falls to $100, you could owe taxes on $1000, and the $900 capital loss would only carry forward to the next year.

This is pretty much what happened to a lot of people in the valley during the dot-com bubble pop - your stock losses could be carried forward until the heat death of the universe, but you paid on 100% of the (illusory) gains.

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#16
post #8

"Under the ruling, purchasing a $2 cup of coffee with Bitcoins bought for $1 would trigger $1 in capital gains for the coffee drinker and $2 of income for the coffee shop." So if the coffee shop leaves the "property" as bitcoins instead of converting it over to dollars, and the value of those bitcoins falls before cashing-out, they're stuck paying tax on the $2 worth of income despite potentially no-longer having the…

My initial thought is that they'd be able to deduct the loss since the bitcoin is being treated as property and not currency. The trade of property for property is done at market value and any subsequent trade is as well, leading to a loss.

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#17
post #8

"Under the ruling, purchasing a $2 cup of coffee with Bitcoins bought for $1 would trigger $1 in capital gains for the coffee drinker and $2 of income for the coffee shop." So if the coffee shop leaves the "property" as bitcoins instead of converting it over to dollars, and the value of those bitcoins falls before cashing-out, they're stuck paying tax on the $2 worth of income despite potentially no-longer having the…

but then the coffee shop gets to claim some tax credits for their negative capital gains

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#18
On one hand this makes sense. The IRS is trying to avoid early adopters from cashing out millions by purchasing goods to avoid paying capital gains tax.

On the other hand, this is debilitating for people who want to use BTC for day to day transactions. Imagine the paperwork involved. <- opportunity for a wallet app which tracks gains/losses

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#19
post #8

"Under the ruling, purchasing a $2 cup of coffee with Bitcoins bought for $1 would trigger $1 in capital gains for the coffee drinker and $2 of income for the coffee shop." So if the coffee shop leaves the "property" as bitcoins instead of converting it over to dollars, and the value of those bitcoins falls before cashing-out, they're stuck paying tax on the $2 worth of income despite potentially no-longer having the…

No, if they take a loss on the bitcoin when they sell it, they can deduct that loss from their income.

Re: IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property

#20
I imagine a managed wallet like Coinbase would really help here. They could easily create a report on exactly how much you owe in capital gains. Managing this yourself could get a bit messy.
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