Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. I could do this on my circa 2005 IBM T43.
Great. So why can't you do it on a MacBook Pro?
Because removable batteries would offend the sensibilities of most Apple customers?
Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
171–180 of 201 posts
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#172Here is a classic example of a startup launching an Altair Basic with the potential produce a Microsoft-like giant. Incidentally, I think this is also the first father/son team we've funded.
I'm curious to know how much work they'd done on the idea ahead of time. If this was conceived during YC, they're definitely a very impressive team. A few months ago I looked into building this exact product. If you're a DIY kinda person and you don't mind carrying around some extra bulk, it's somewhat easy to cobble something together. If you want a light/small brick w/ self-contained charging and output regulation…
There are 100s of ways to game this cycle spec too. For example, for all we know there is a 100WHr pack inside the box and they only make 50WHr of it available to the user. This way you can make a 50WHr battery that effectively never "degrades". The BatteryOS just manages the "reserve". Then the only thing they are really measuring is the speed at which their algorithm looses calibration. The software for many BMUs (battery management units) actually does this today.
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. I could do this on my circa 2005 IBM T43.
Great. So why can't you do it on a MacBook Pro?
Because they valued more the engineering advantage of a built-in battery: thinness, weight, individually connected cells for power management.
Those attributes of design are more appealing to the majority than are interchangeable batteries.
My MBP and MBAir, even with the single built-in battery, gets more runtime than a 1996 laptop with two battery packs.
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
You need to read to the end of the post to understand PG's analogy. There is software that controls the charging rate of the battery that (if the claims are correct) could be fundamentally disruptive to batteries going forward, so the Altair analogy implies a potential software licensing strategy as an upside in this company.
But is this new technology? Have they really figured out something that other battery companies don't know? This charger takes 2.25 hours to reach 80% or 4.5 hours to reach 100% capacity. Could it simply be that they're charging more slowly? Maybe other battery makers know about this, but they don't implement it because they (and consumers) don't value using the battery effectively. Hoping for some lithium-charging e…
It charges slowly because they are charging over micro usb.
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
You need to read to the end of the post to understand PG's analogy. There is software that controls the charging rate of the battery that (if the claims are correct) could be fundamentally disruptive to batteries going forward, so the Altair analogy implies a potential software licensing strategy as an upside in this company.
But is this new technology? Have they really figured out something that other battery companies don't know? This charger takes 2.25 hours to reach 80% or 4.5 hours to reach 100% capacity. Could it simply be that they're charging more slowly? Maybe other battery makers know about this, but they don't implement it because they (and consumers) don't value using the battery effectively. Hoping for some lithium-charging e…
In the paper reference to arxiv, which supposedly explains what this tech does, that is exactly what they are doing. Equation (1) shows that rate of SEI growth is proportional to charge rate (note: this equation given is actually a simplification as their rho should be proportional to how full the pack is) so you can limit SEI growth to whatever you want by just taking a charge time hit. Your users may or may not like this.
I can promise you none of this is new to anyone in the battery industry. The problem is not lack of knowledge. In general, the problem is the lack of desire to pay for a micro controller which can run the software necessary to do the math in the battery pack.
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a feeling that if it can connect to a MagSafe port and work, Apple has control over it.
The claimed performance would provide a huge competitive advantage. If it worked as advertised and Apple had control over it, they'd integrate the software into their products and this box would never see the light of day as a third party product.
Apparently Apple already has it. Read the section titled "your new notebook"
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since they filed a patent on it, I assume it is new tech. There is new charging tech from time to time, but most of the IP belongs to those big semiconductor companies, like TI. I know TI has an innovative power management module for LiPoly batteries, but it is pretty expensive.
It could be a new tech. While there are quite a few BMS chips available around, from a bunch of companies [ http://liionbms.com/html/BMS_IC_table.html ] it is possible that they did some careful research onto what charging cycles are used in these products and found charging cycles that work even better for particular battery chemistries. On the other hand, research is tough and it is so much easier to learn about th…
Looked at it a bit more, I think this story could be a good illustration of confirmation bias in research [1].
They've probably tried their best, but it is really really really easy to make a mistake when you are designing an experiment. Or post-processing your experimental data. Or plotting the results. Or doing your math.
As it was noticed in the comments below, it looks like in that particular case an outcome of an experiment was decided using insufficient (n = 1) number of samples [ http://www.getbatterybox.com/bos.html#highexpl ]. Also there is at least one mistake in the math, a 50Wh battery can not be charged from a discharged state to 80% by 5 Volt 1 Amp power source in 4.5 hours [ http://www.getbatterybox.com/index.html#faq ]. The math is wrong.
[1] As per Wikipedia article: confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is the tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#178I think all laptops can extend the battery life-span significantly with just smarter software. I manually cycle my laptop battery regularly & do not keep it charged at 100% all the time even if the laptop is plugged in (some Thinkpad models allow that). Even after 2 years of daily use, I've got greater than 80-90% battery capacity left.
I do absolutely nothing special to try to prolong the lifetime of my 3-year-old MacBook Pro battery and it's still got 92% capacity.
My experience with Windows laptops is totally different
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't remember the details, but IIRC they are Apple proof.
Hopefully, but color me skeptical. I don't see how anyone can be X-proof, where X is a company that has over $100 billion in their bank account.
Apple under Jobs might be different to Apple under Cook. Potentially they have Apple's blessing. Suppose a promising YC company was just going to make it for the newest Samsung laptop otherwise. What would you do if you were Apple? Just speculation, but that's how I imagine "Apple-proof" meaning, especially if there's some agreement that they can't announce yet.
Re: Gbatteries (YC W14) Launches BatteryBox, A 50Whr Backup Battery For MacBooks
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious to know how much work they'd done on the idea ahead of time. If this was conceived during YC, they're definitely a very impressive team. A few months ago I looked into building this exact product. If you're a DIY kinda person and you don't mind carrying around some extra bulk, it's somewhat easy to cobble something together. If you want a light/small brick w/ self-contained charging and output regulation…
There are 100s of ways to game this cycle spec too. For example, for all we know there is a 100WHr pack inside the box and they only make 50WHr of it available to the user. This way you can make a 50WHr battery that effectively never "degrades". The BatteryOS just manages the "reserve". Then the only thing they are really measuring is the speed at which their algorithm looses calibration. The software for many BMUs (…
That's not a terrible idea, actually.
When you purchase any NAND flash device like a USB stick or an SSD, essentially the same thing is happening. The raw storage is much higher, but due to a high raw bit error rate (see NAND displacement errors), the need for wear leveling, and the need for reserve blocks to swap into service as the device ages, the claimed capacities are reduced to accommodate MTBF and observed bit error specs.
In cases such as this I think it'd be disingenuous not to drop your claimed specs to reflect the actual usefulness of the device.