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The Brutal Ageism of Tech

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Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#241

Post by k2xl »

loomio wrote: post #100
tim333 wrote: post #94

I think part of the problem with VCs giving money to older guys to start a business, as opposed to writing software, is that if they were any good at building business that you'd kind of expect them to be rich already. When that is the case such as Joel Spolsky (49 ish) raising money for Stack Exchange there are no problems. Basically any VC would write him a cheque. But I can see the problem with a 49 yr old guy say…

The article focuses on an example of a guy who had totally proved himself with past success, and yet still encountered ageism. Here's how he's introduced: > The most impressive entrepreneur in Scheinman’s portfolio who hadn’t caught on was a fortysomething Boston-based engineer named Nick Stamos. In the early 2000s, Stamos had been the chief technology officer at one start-up that eventually hit a market value of $1…

Well maybe his idea sucked? Or maybe he bombed his pitch? I mean come on why assume aegism? There are way too many counter examples.

Even if a VC says they like the idea doesn't mean that it is investable.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#242

Post by mgkimsal »

skrebbel wrote: post #219

Anecdotal: I'm a part-time CTO (long story) of a startup. I'm 30 myself. We hired 6 engineers in total up until now: three interns in their twenties, who're very smart and motivated but also inexperienced; two programmers with a few years of professional experience who can get to real decent (well written, unit tested, etc) code on the first go; and 1 guy of over 40. When hiring, I was very skeptical of the guy over…

As an older person, I commend you for looking past your comfort zone. Your anecdote certainly doesn't mean that all old people are better developers, but I tell people that I've already made most of my mistakes 10-15 years ago on other peoples' projects. Gets a bit of a chuckle, but it's reality - we all make mistakes when learning.

I just did a prototype demo for someone - took about 6 hours - and it was more fully functional than something they'd had a team of people working on for weeks. It's rare that there's that much of a difference, and to be fair there were weeks of communication and discovery going on that I didn't have to deal with. But the other team was also using an older PHP framework which they were painfully not comfortable with (I later found out mandated for bad reasons). Judging by their code, they wouldn't have been comfortable in any framework, but that's another story.

This is far less about how great I am, and more about understanding common problem domains, knowing your tools, knowing when it's OK to cut corners and when not to, and how best to communicate with people. Some of that comes with passion and dedication, but some of it only really comes over time, and the more the better, usually combined with the passion and/or dedication for maximum results.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#243

Post by not_paul_graham »

skrebbel wrote: post #219

Anecdotal: I'm a part-time CTO (long story) of a startup. I'm 30 myself. We hired 6 engineers in total up until now: three interns in their twenties, who're very smart and motivated but also inexperienced; two programmers with a few years of professional experience who can get to real decent (well written, unit tested, etc) code on the first go; and 1 guy of over 40. When hiring, I was very skeptical of the guy over…

But are you based in SF [1]? I think that this article is more specific to the west coast tech scene in the United States.

[1] Your profile indicates that you might be based out of Europe.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#244

Post by hnnewguy »

skrebbel wrote: post #219

Anecdotal: I'm a part-time CTO (long story) of a startup. I'm 30 myself. We hired 6 engineers in total up until now: three interns in their twenties, who're very smart and motivated but also inexperienced; two programmers with a few years of professional experience who can get to real decent (well written, unit tested, etc) code on the first go; and 1 guy of over 40. When hiring, I was very skeptical of the guy over…

>Hire older people!

This is a great anecdote, though I don't fully understand why it surprises people.

Most people in their early 20s are still "kids", both socially and work-experience-wise. Give me a hungry 30+ any day.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#245

Post by [deleted] »

skrebbel wrote: post #219

Anecdotal: I'm a part-time CTO (long story) of a startup. I'm 30 myself. We hired 6 engineers in total up until now: three interns in their twenties, who're very smart and motivated but also inexperienced; two programmers with a few years of professional experience who can get to real decent (well written, unit tested, etc) code on the first go; and 1 guy of over 40. When hiring, I was very skeptical of the guy over…

[deleted]

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#246

Post by zequel »

[deleted] wrote: post #245
skrebbel wrote: post #219

Anecdotal: I'm a part-time CTO (long story) of a startup. I'm 30 myself. We hired 6 engineers in total up until now: three interns in their twenties, who're very smart and motivated but also inexperienced; two programmers with a few years of professional experience who can get to real decent (well written, unit tested, etc) code on the first go; and 1 guy of over 40. When hiring, I was very skeptical of the guy over…

[deleted]

From someone's who over 40, I'm glad he was candid. It's good to hear people's perspectives, they shouldn't be afraid to share their thoughts. Maybe by him sharing his story, other people will see that he was skeptical (like they may be), and saw a benefit in the end. His silence benefits no one. Please don't censor people.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#247

Post by pmcpinto »

jmd_ wrote: post #227

I'm curious when I read these articles: does this also mean making a career switch, or maybe attempting to start a career, in programming post 30 (with or without a degree) is incredibly improbable? Does that ring true to people here?

I have the same question and unfortunately seems that is true

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#248

Post by Cenfath »

"Don't trust anyone over 30."

The denizens of VCastan propagate this nonsense like it is a moral imperative shouted from the mountain top. One day those very denizens will be over 30, and at that time it will be a completely different story.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#249

Post by taude »

jroseattle wrote: post #211

I've been hiring for our engineering team recently, and for us ageism is a very real thing that we try to combat. But it's not what one might expect. We're building a team of experienced engineers, and experience is key. Zuckerberg made his comment in 2007, but I bet he has highly refined his thinking since then. We look at engineer hiring to determine what's valuable, and what's teachable. Do we want our engineers t…

Wise thoughts here, especially on "reasonably current" and teachable.. I share similar characteristics in what I look for in engineering hires, especially when certain aspects of the tech landscape change so quickly. Especially around "programming language" requirements: I don't really care if you know Ruby/python/PHP/JAVA so much as you've worked in a high-up time scalable environment, working in large code bases, with solid tech design chops, you'll fill in the 'language' requirement pretty quickly if you're actually the right type of person to hire. Even more so if you're motivated and have a strong desire to work with our tech stack...

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#250

Post by jaimebuelta »

mgkimsal wrote: post #110

How much overlap is there between the types of companies in this article and the typical "we can't find anyone qualified to hire!" company? I suspect it's not total, but there's probably some overlap. I can't wait until these 22 year olds of today hit their 40s and they reap what they've sown. Zuckerburg said "younger people are just smarter"? Certainly there's a degree of hubris in youth that you don't lose without…

I wonder how much of the "younger people are just smarter" Zuckemberg quote is he actually thinking that and how much is "People here in Springfield really know how to rock!"
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