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The Brutal Ageism of Tech

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Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do they care so much about hours and not about output? I would kind of understand if this was for some web technologies since older devs might not be up to speed with the latest compile-to-JS language but I can't imagine that someone who has been writing say C++ for the last 20 years would not perform better than someone fresh out of school.

Most starts ups aren't using C++. 90% of starts up do the "latest compile-to-JS language" thing.

Well AFAIK FB uses C++ and they are mentioned as one of the companies using these hiring practices.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting stuck in your ways is a liability. Someone who is continuously improving, while remaining aware of the current environment, will have experience as an asset. Edit to your edit: You have much to learn...That's reality. Don't worry, I also have much to learn ;-)

Yes, you have to continuously improve, and also recognize that the things you learned before may no longer apply. Always know why you have to do the things you do and when that isn't true anymore. Also I didn't understand half of what you said.

> also recognize that the things you learned before may no longer apply

You also have to learn when the things you learned before do apply. This is important because technology is cyclic. There are a constant stream of fads that many of the less experienced engineers won't be able to see alternatives to.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do they care so much about hours and not about output? I would kind of understand if this was for some web technologies since older devs might not be up to speed with the latest compile-to-JS language but I can't imagine that someone who has been writing say C++ for the last 20 years would not perform better than someone fresh out of school.

Most starts ups aren't using C++. 90% of starts up do the "latest compile-to-JS language" thing.

[deleted]

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#24

Here's the thing, the software-is-eating-the-world explosion really took off in the early 90's (or at least that's when myself and a bunch of friends I knew got into it). All the people that got into writing software back then are aging and most that I know aren't planning to stop. I myself am on the doorstep of my 36th birthday. For those of us that have slogged it out for multiple decades now aren't simply going to…

For a long time I looked around at the relative lack of 40+ developers and founders in my field and considered it worrisome; what will I do when I get to that age? do I need a massive bank of savings just in case?

But I think it's also easy to see it as an opportunity. We are staggeringly lucky generation; software is the future and it isn't going the way of mass automation or obsolescence any time soon. There is probably another two hundred years of foundational innovation left in the field, we're still just scratching the surface of information theory and what's possible. Experience is likely to increase in value.

As individuals; by cultivating just a little higher order thinking, and seeing above the surface layer of raw code, it shouldn't be hard to offer meaningful value and insight for the remainder of one's lifetime. I don't think the key is learning to "adapt", progressing from one fad language or technique to another, so much as it is to see the similarities between these fads and to understand them at a higher level of abstraction. To understand that SOA programming is the same thing as micro-kernels, or CSP, for example, and to seem to offer new wisdom by regurgitating the old.

In that spirit, I've observed that the successful senior engineers I've come to know don't decry constant change, but constant same-ness.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most starts ups aren't using C++. 90% of starts up do the "latest compile-to-JS language" thing.

Well AFAIK FB uses C++ and they are mentioned as one of the companies using these hiring practices.

I would not call Facebook a start up anymore. They are creating their own VMs and Database systems. Most start ups don't do that. Unless that's the product.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do they care so much about hours and not about output? I would kind of understand if this was for some web technologies since older devs might not be up to speed with the latest compile-to-JS language but I can't imagine that someone who has been writing say C++ for the last 20 years would not perform better than someone fresh out of school.

Most starts ups aren't using C++. 90% of starts up do the "latest compile-to-JS language" thing.

> 90% of starts up do the "latest compile-to-JS language" thing.

Sounds like an accurate statistical sampling to me.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#27
post #3

I don't really get the pragmatism behind ageism in tech entrepreneurship. That is, in a field in which human abilities are augmented by ever-more faster computing, and in which ideas, experience, and relationships would seemingly be as important (if not much more ) as youthful energy...how is it logical that its best people would solely be among sub-30-year olds? It just doesn't make any sense.

It's not a capability thing. It's a make-you-work-more-hours-for-less-money-than-the-older-engineer thing.

Us older guys discovered long ago that the more hours/week beyond a certain amount you work, the less you accomplish.

Besides, I write my best code when I'm jogging. I just type it in when I get back to my desk.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#28
post #26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most starts ups aren't using C++. 90% of starts up do the "latest compile-to-JS language" thing.

> 90% of starts up do the "latest compile-to-JS language" thing. Sounds like an accurate statistical sampling to me.

Its not meant to be accurate sampling, its hyperbole to prove a point.

But you can see for yourself. Have a look at most jobs at start ups, they're always javascript/ruby/python/fancy new framework or mobile apps to reinvent online shopping or web site analytics or something.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a capability thing. It's a make-you-work-more-hours-for-less-money-than-the-older-engineer thing.

But why do they care so much about hours and not about output? I would kind of understand if this was for some web technologies since older devs might not be up to speed with the latest compile-to-JS language but I can't imagine that someone who has been writing say C++ for the last 20 years would not perform better than someone fresh out of school.

The short answer is that they can't measure output. It's extremely hard for a layman to know exactly how much value he's getting out of a programmer except through another, more skilled programmer.

There's probably a business idea there.

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